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Mixing LFE in with a stereo pair?
Is there a way to take a stereo pair of sub-woofers and mix in the LFE channel also?
For example I want to use my McIntosh MEN220 to split the signal between the tower and the sub-woofer so each towers / sub-woofer is acting as united pair. Overall the of tower / sub-woofers will act as one part of a stereo pair. But because I also use the same setup for movies, so I want to take the LFE (0.1) channel that comes off the pre-amp and have both subwoofers play it together. One idea that I thought may work is since my JL sub-woofers have two inputs , put each in combined input mode, run the LFE in on one input, and the output from the MEN220 on the other. Let the subwoofer itself mux the two channels together? |
#2
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There are some pre/pros that will let you redirect LFE to the mains, but I would advise against it. Assuming perfect integration of the stereo subs (which takes an active cross-over and a small miracle), the impulse waves of the stereo subs will match the mains. Actually, they are probably in phase but delayed by one of more cycles (due to group delay in the subs), so there is still smearing even though they look in phase on a graph. To make matters worse, the LFE track is added sound under 80 H (the "boom track") that has nothing to do with music. The fix is to send the LFE signal to a third sub while telling your pre/pro that your mains are "full range" and further telling it that your sub is twelve or more feet further away from the listening position than it really is. The pre/pro will start the impulse wave 12 milliseconds early, which will be negated by the group delay inherent in a thirteen inch diaphragm, with the net result that the impulse wave of the LFE arrives precisely when it sounds best. Now you see why I have three subs with an active cross-over running two of them and a pre/pro sending LFE to only one of them.
Last edited by chessman; 07-13-2017 at 12:13 PM. |
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Thanks for this write up. I am actually planning to add a third sub when I move back to the US. |
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Main - Roon on Synology/Sonos Port/SoTM Neo endpoints; Chord Qutest, Bryston BP-17 cubed with phono option; EAT C-sharp with Ortofon Bronze MM, Bryston cubed Amplifier; Revel F126Be on custom Atocha stands; interconnects by WireWorld, furniture by Atocha Design 'Phones Audeze LCD-3, Bryston BHA-1; Office: Sonos/Roon; OPPO HA-1, Naim NAP100 and PSB Mini-C. Media Room:, Samsung QLED QN90 series, Sonos, OPPO 205, ATI N-core driving KEF LS-50's with REL subs; furniture by Glassisimo; Kids - U-turn for vinyl, Sonos Play5; Summer Shack - Sonos, vintage Pioneer, Dynaudio Special 40's. Last edited by clpetersen; 02-28-2018 at 04:05 PM. |
#6
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Mixing LFE in with a stereo pair?
There are two separate discussions going on here.
The first is how to properly integrate a sub with your mains so that the time response is correct. This will involve delaying the signal to the mains the exact amount needed to match the delay in the sub. If the MEN 220 has a straight delay capability you can use that for the mains. Never owned one so I’m not sure. To make up for the 12 mSec delay in the subs, you’d have to move the subs physically 12 feet forward! That’s an impossibility in most rooms. By setting the sub distance in your pre/pro 12 feet farther back than it physically is you will delay the signal to the mains and surrounds by 12 mSec to match the delay in the sub. A little counter intuitive, granted, but you can’t turn back time and create negative delay! Finally once you have the sub/main delay thing worked out the LFE is just a matter of setting the right levels. The way REL integrates their subs by paralleling the mains speaker connection is technically incorrect. The steady state response is fine, but transients are not properly compensated. However, their subs are loved by many, so who am I to judge? Tom
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v Last edited by W9TR; 02-28-2018 at 04:49 PM. |
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A thorough explaining of subwoofer implementation can be found by Barry Ober, also known as The Soundoctor. https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...udio-Subwoofer
Ron
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Ron Processor: McIntosh MX170, Amp: Legacy Audio i-V7, Digital: Benchmark DAC3B, Roon Music Player, Oppo UDP-205, Apple TV 4K, Fire TV Stick 4K Max, Analog: Gold Note Pianosa Turntable, Gold Note PH-10 Phono Preamplifier, Donatello MC Cartridge, Speakers: Legacy Audio Signature SE Natural Sapele Pommele, Silverscreen HD Center, JL Audio e112-Gloss Sub |
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+1
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
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