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  #4301  
Old 02-03-2018, 07:13 PM
Bombadil Bombadil is offline
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I've never found a 95db+ efficient speaker, for less than $20K, which I like. I like great imaging and definition. The higher efficiency speakers I've heard are too forward through the midrange or roll off lows or roll off highs or just don't produce the detailed soundstage that I love. Not sure I've seen any of the vintage or low-to-mid priced high efficiency speakers do much about time alignment, edge diffraction, and some (open baffle) produce a lot of sound off of the back which reflects off your walls and destroys imaging. I find most of them to be fatiguing.

I have heard some high-end speakers which sound fantastic and which are efficient. Like a pair of $60K Von Schweikerts which were 95dB. Some of the Focal Utopia series are up around 94-95dB. Magico Q7 around 94dB. There are others.
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  #4302  
Old 02-03-2018, 07:16 PM
Bombadil Bombadil is offline
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Originally Posted by decooney View Post
TEST#2: Just hooked up my smaller Totem Model 1 Signature Class-A speakers (87db) to the little DH Inspire KT150 Hot Rod amp. Speakers absolutely disappear, a bit more laid back at low volume, absolute pinpoint imaging and all - BUT it takes another 1/4 turn or more of volume to get them to light up a bit more.
Those little Totems sound nice. But the reason why you have to turn that volume control up is that they actually measure at only 83.5dB efficent. Many speakers measure from 2-4dB lower than they are spec'ed.
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  #4303  
Old 02-03-2018, 09:22 PM
decooney decooney is offline
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Originally Posted by Bombadil View Post
I've never found a 95db+ efficient speaker, for less than $20K, which I like. I like great imaging and definition. The higher efficiency speakers I've heard are too forward through the midrange or roll off lows or roll off highs or just don't produce the detailed soundstage that I love. Not sure I've seen any of the vintage or low-to-mid priced high efficiency speakers do much about time alignment, edge diffraction, and some (open baffle) produce a lot of sound off of the back which reflects off your walls and destroys imaging. I find most of them to be fatiguing.

I have heard some high-end speakers which sound fantastic and which are efficient. Like a pair of $60K Von Schweikerts which were 95dB. Some of the Focal Utopia series are up around 94-95dB. Magico Q7 around 94dB. There are others.

Good to know. This just encourages me to keep working with my own DIY designs. As you noted, I too am not a big fan of the squawky midrange that some of the lower cost higher efficiency speakers produce.

Been playing the little Totem Model 1s speakers all day on the DH KT150 amp. As long as you are sitting in front of the speakers with a little volume, they sound great at their reported 87db. The sound stage tends to stay more between the two speakers an goes pretty far back on these with this tube amp. When I power them with the larger amps, sound stage goes further to the right and left of each speaker. My larger custom speakers are around 91.5-92db And they do sound different in just the total volume of output and sound stage is wider and a bit more forward, but not in your face.

I may see if I can just demo/borrow and test ome other speakers in the 92-93b sensitivity range and see what changes. Did not plan on using my larger custom speakers with the little DH amp permanently, but it does sound better.
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  #4304  
Old 02-04-2018, 11:57 AM
FloridaBoy FloridaBoy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decooney View Post
Good to know. This just encourages me to keep working with my own DIY designs. As you noted, I too am not a big fan of the squawky midrange that some of the lower cost higher efficiency speakers produce.

Been playing the little Totem Model 1s speakers all day on the DH KT150 amp. As long as you are sitting in front of the speakers with a little volume, they sound great at their reported 87db. The sound stage tends to stay more between the two speakers an goes pretty far back on these with this tube amp. When I power them with the larger amps, sound stage goes further to the right and left of each speaker. My larger custom speakers are around 91.5-92db And they do sound different in just the total volume of output and sound stage is wider and a bit more forward, but not in your face.

I may see if I can just demo/borrow and test ome other speakers in the 92-93b sensitivity range and see what changes. Did not plan on using my larger custom speakers with the little DH amp permanently, but it does sound better.
Speakers are a slippery slope especially with low power amps. Personal preference is a big factor too. My Inspire gear is tweaked for horns. Not at all 'shouty' with the Heresy III's. I took it to a friends house and drove his Volti modified 104db Belle Klipsch with Pope 6V6's. 2.5 watts in triode. It held its own with his 2A3 and 45 amps.

Omega has a trial period so that may be your best bet. Too bad we are all not in the same neighborhood. There is no substitute for listening.

I'm tempted by the Altecs but really don't need to open another can of worms. They are 602 D's 8 ohm 101db/w. Asking $900 for 2 pairs of them in what appear to be home made boxes. The big issue is that the tweeter diaphragm is unobtanium.

Last edited by FloridaBoy; 02-04-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  #4305  
Old 02-04-2018, 12:10 PM
decooney decooney is offline
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...

I'm tempted by the Altecs but really don't need to open another can of worms.
If you do go for Altecs, plan for immediate x-over upgrades (scratch or vintage), and then more tweaks from there. Updated x-overs help, in some cases help a lot depending on the age of the Altecs. I helped a friend with three scratch build sets of the extra-large Altec / Onken replicas. Huge refrigerator size speakers. They run custom 3-4 watt Audio Note 300B amps with massive transformers. Seems my friend and his two friends were happy initially with all three pairs of these Onkens. Now it seems every time I go over there, the crossovers change notable once again, different horns are being swapped in/out. Now one of them decided to deconstruct, sell the parts. A lot of work went into these speakers too. Problem is, you need the right room for those big horns too and it seems its hard for them to find a good "set" point because each has a different room. That's why I stick with the smaller cabinet designs.

I agree, maybe Lewis over at Omega might do some loaners but they are all the way out in CT. I'd have to be certain before trying that. I've got a few builds I wanna go back and re-try this year anyhow so may do that first. Right now I'm still kind of amazed how this little DH KT150 amp sounds with my custom designed DEC-AMT28 speakers. It will drive them, but going back to my big V12R amp tonight to compare what I'm missing, if anything.

Last edited by decooney; 02-04-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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  #4306  
Old 02-04-2018, 04:09 PM
FloridaBoy FloridaBoy is online now
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Yeah, the Altec's are a project I don't need. Sanity prevails.
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  #4307  
Old 02-04-2018, 09:41 PM
Bombadil Bombadil is offline
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Speakers are so subjective. What is a grating noise to one person is nirvana to another. And each is so dependent upon the room they are in and how they are placed within it.

Consider the KEF LS50. A lot of people love it, it has garnered reviews almost unheard of for its price point. Others think it is highly overrated and hate it. And as it is inefficient, it is not well thought of by the flea watt crowd.
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  #4308  
Old 02-05-2018, 01:16 AM
decooney decooney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombadil View Post
Speakers are so subjective. What is a grating noise to one person is nirvana to another. And each is so dependent upon the room they are in and how they are placed within it.

Consider the KEF LS50. A lot of people love it, it has garnered reviews almost unheard of for its price point. Others think it is highly overrated and hate it. And as it is inefficient, it is not well thought of by the flea watt crowd.
Great example. The LS50 would sound full and amazing on my larger tube or solid state amps in the same room. Due to it's lower efficiency, It would likely perform in a less-than-optimum way (less full sounding) on my 10w DH amp. Seeing some good deals on used units is tempting. Its clear the speaker works well for some, not for others, and they go up for resale. Matching is important.
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  #4309  
Old 02-05-2018, 09:00 PM
Rosco65 Rosco65 is offline
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For the price of a pair of LS50’s you could get a pair of Omega Super 3HO Monitors or maybe even a pair of Compact Alnico Monitors. They are both the same size (a little larger than the LS50) and are both very (95 dB) efficient.
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  #4310  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:28 AM
decooney decooney is offline
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Originally Posted by Rosco65 View Post
For the price of a pair of LS50’s you could get a pair of Omega Super 3HO Monitors or maybe even a pair of Compact Alnico Monitors. They are both the same size (a little larger than the LS50) and are both very (95 dB) efficient.

How is the low-end bass weight on the Omega Super 3HO Monitors?

I've never heard them. An audio friend mentioned to me how some of these ultra light weight and super fast drivers used are very efficient, however with very little mass to the driver itself they can sound quite lean at times without the absolute proper cabinet design and crossover. I'd be guessing to say they make up the difference somehow in cabinet design or exact in-room placement too. If they are ultra room sensitive, that could be a challenge for me but these speakers do seem to have a following from you guys. Thanks for the note.
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