SVS SB16 compared to JL Audio F113v2

[paulphoosreal]

I dislike being redundant but JL at least is realizing the need for active xovers in their E series. I've had the F models and have put the E's up against them and I would take an E everyday not because of cost. Reasons being NO need for external xover plus to my ears nearly equivalent bass reproduction in my room. My room being the variable in this equation. In reading and talking to Barry Ober the only accurate way to blend a sub with any speakers is use of an active xover. And that xover must be a true 2 way making the sub and speakers 2 distinct systems. Again my 2 cents and YMMV.

[Pampero]

Originally Posted by paulphoosreal

I dislike being redundant but JL at least is realizing the need for active xovers in their E series. I've had the F models and have put the E's up against them and I would take an E everyday not because of cost. Reasons being NO need for external xover plus to my ears nearly equivalent bass reproduction in my room. My room being the variable in this equation. In reading and talking to Barry Ober the only accurate way to blend a sub with any speakers is use of an active xover. And that xover must be a true 2 way making the sub and speakers 2 distinct systems. Again my 2 cents and YMMV.

My milage doesn't vary, I've said it over and over, but I own an F113. I may scour the used market for a crossover as there's a limit to how much I'm willing to spend on my bass project at this time.

I'll repeat that a 30Hz low pass knee has been the trick for me to be able to use the JLA F113v2 but I knew going in that I would have to get out of the sub as fast as possible to make a good match with the Salon2s, just as I knew that picking a sub without a high pass leg meant I was likely compromising total system performance.

Something I will try soon is emulating an (ersatz) high pass by playing with the 25Hz eq controls of my C52. I don't think it's possible to obtain all the rock 'em sock 'em punch I'm after in certain program material without control of the LF of the mains.

[Ricjor1]

After 3 weeks I decided I'll return the SB16 Ultra on 12/26/2106. I hate it for 2-channel and find the PB2000 a much better value for HT/surround sound.

[Pampero]

I'm working on this as well and have had some success refining the SB in my rig but it's been a slog compared to the JL that just slotted in. More later.

[Ricjor1]

Originally Posted by Pampero

I'm working on this as well and have had some success refining the SB in my rig but it's been a slog compared to the JL that just slotted in. More later.

What adjustments have you made...crossover or otherwise?

[scirica]

I really want stereo subs at some point to pair with my Salon 2's, but to do it right I feel I would have to add the outboard two way crossover. If one hade to compare the f113v2 duals and CR1 with a pair of e112's and their built in crossover, how much would I be giving up with the e series?

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by scirica

I really want stereo subs at some point to pair with my Salon 2's, but to do it right I feel I would have to add the outboard two way crossover. If one hade to compare the f113v2 duals and CR1 with a pair of e112's and their built in crossover, how much would I be giving up with the e series?

Too much, lucky you know me!

[scirica]

That's what I figured! Would be cool to have an analysis of the two scenarios. Still, I know myself and the e's would only be a first step toward the f's and the external crossover.

[Pampero]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

What adjustments have you made...crossover or otherwise?

Well, good that you ask! First, for the end of any suspense, the SVS is being returned. No matter how I (and today, we) tried, we were unable to match the sound quality of the JL F113 or create the illusion of a seamless blend.

First, by experimenting, I found with both subs that setting the Revels to "boundary" helped integrate them to my taste. Shelving that low end a bit makes it easier for me as I don't have a crossover....yet.

With the SVS, I tried multiple low pass knees up to 100Hz, but I only needed to go to 100Hz once with Salon2s to know I don't want to go there again. The SVS works in my rig with LP adjustments between 30 and 45Hz. At 30 Hz, the sound is relatively clean but there is no "chest slam" if that's important to you. At the higher end (45Hz) there's more slam but it's not as tight sounding overall. Low pass settings in between compromises one quality for the other in proportion, as you'd expect.

I modeled my room using REW and measured (today, with the help of my friend Ken) using SMAART. I have a haystack of energy at my listening position centered just below 30 Hz. I used the SVS' parametric to try and help reduce that but regardless of Q or amount of cut, the problem of bloat and graininess was not resolved. We could get close, but never audiophile grade. No cigar. If I were to make a recommendation based on my gear in my room or one like it and one wanted to avoid most of the problems, I'd recommend a low pass between 30 and 35Hz at 24 dB per octave. If one were willing to allow some "overhang" but wanted more slam, 38 to 42Hz.

The JL's settings are similar, but no concerns over how to set the eq of course. I originally had the same low crossover point (30Hz) and calibrated the sub at that level. It was very clean sounding, but just like the SVS, not so much chest slam. Today we tried it with a 40Hz low pass and that gave more slam without degrading the rest of the sound. I have gain set to -6 dB below the marked zero point (which is, I assume, unity). It measures best (flatest) there, but is more impressive to the masses when set to unity, and it doesn't sound bad to me there either, but there's just too much bass for my sense of proper balance with most program.


No matter how we run the SVS, the JL just plain sounds better, more definition, excellent timbre and less slop. It's a good match for the Revels. Having said that, we were able to improve considerably on the sound of the SVS by tuning with instruments, but it will never be as musical as the JL. For movies, the SVS is less objectionable. It has more output but in my room, that's wasted considering what I like to listen to. The JL is just better behaved all around and the difference is immediately obvious.

As we've said all along, a proper crossover would make the exercise even better, but as it stands right now, it's still pretty cool!

[Masterlu]

FWIW, I used to sell SVS; they are simply out gunned by JL IMO.