Current C22 vs C70

[Charles]

Originally Posted by PeterMusic

I love my C22, but I vote that you listen to both before deciding. A couple of thoughts on the C22 features you mention:

I do not like my loudness button--even at low volume, I prefer the sound without it--so I do not use it.

I do not understand the value my mode knob. If I play a mono recording, for example, it comes through both speakers as mono. So why do I need a knob? [Please advise if you know the answer]

I agree with the comment above that the fit and finish on the C70 appears better, but I have not seen one in the flesh.

Good luck choosing, keep us posted!

My father who introduced me to stereo owned both a C-20 and C-22. I remember both units fairly well. I liked the C-20 myself. It was more beautiful. The only meaningful difference between the two was that with the C-22 you could individually adjust the bass and treble for each channel. The current C-22 is basically like a C-20 control wise. Regarding the Mode knob, back in those days it was standard with Mac but has little use today. Then, stereo was "new" and mono was the standard. Therefore, one would always want to be able (have the option) to listen to any vinyl or tape stereo recording in mono. The loudness control was also standard and boosts the bass when the volume is turned down. Again, it has little use today. If you look at the specs of the C-70 and the C-2600, they are identical, other than the fact that the 2600 has a DAC. I can tell you that the current C-22 other than cosmetics bears very little resemblance to the vintage C-20 or C-22. However, the current C-22 IMO is a wonderful preamp, far superior in every respect to its vintage counterpart. I would be proud to be the owner of one. I grew up listening to Mac tube preamps/tube power amps and Bozak loudspeakers, all of which very favorably compare to the high end sound of today, IMO.

[med_designer]

So my dealer told me this PM that the C22's are all gone and there are none available for purchase. That being said, I should be picking up my new C70 on Friday. This will make my Mac stack:

C70
D1100
MCT450
MC152

This should hold me over till the turntable project this summer and then I hope to be happy for year to come.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by med_designer

So my dealer told me this PM that the C22's are all gone and there are none available for purchase. That being said, I should be picking up my new C70 on Friday. This will make my Mac stack:

C70
D1100
MCT450
MC152

This should hold me over till the turntable project this summer and then I hope to be happy for year to come.

Congratulations! I personally like a preamp without a DAC. I think the C-70 is essentially like a 2600 without a DAC. I also like separates. Unless your speakers are high efficiency, you might want more power in the future but the MC152 has all the technology of the most modern Mac SS amps, meaning it is superb. You can use the C70/D1100/MCT452 as the nucleus for a reference system. These components will hold you in good stead for many years to come. Again, I think things really worked out well for you.

[62caddy]

Originally Posted by Charles

My father who introduced me to stereo owned both a C-20 and C-22. I remember both units fairly well. I liked the C-20 myself. It was more beautiful. The only meaningful difference between the two was that with the C-22 you could individually adjust the bass and treble for each channel. The current C-22 is basically like a C-20 control wise. The loudness control was also standard and boosts the bass when the volume is turned down. Again, it has little use today.

I like both C20 & C22 myself. The C20's weak point is its volume control which is complex and troublesome - all 5 inches of it. The C22 volume is simpler with better L/R tracking.

I'm not certain the reason for the elimination of loudness compensation as the characteristic in human hearing for bass and treble frequencies to roll off at low listening levels hasn't changed so I wouldn't exactly say it has little use today. Like tone controls, it's nice to have when it's needed.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by 62caddy

I like both C20 & C22 myself. The C20's weak point is its volume control which is complex and troublesome - all 5 inches of it. The C22 volume is simpler with better L/R tracking.

I'm not certain the reason for the elimination of loudness compensation as the characteristic in human hearing for bass and treble frequencies to roll off at low listening levels hasn't changed so I wouldn't exactly say it has little use today. Like tone controls, it's nice to have when it's needed.

I was just a little boy back in those days. I have zero idea why I was so smitten by "hi-fi". I read the Allied catalog avidly. Fisher, Sherwood, Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Knight (Allied's house brand). Honestly it was more fun back then. The prices are simply ridiculous today. A 240 cost 288 dollars and that seemed like the moon to me. I think a lot of the marvel has been lost and the high end has become populated with a lot of wealthy people (not criticizing wealth though). One of the reasons I like Mac so much is value for the money. I think Med Designer has a nuclear system that is very reasonably priced and extremely beautiful that would be difficult to improve upon for 5-10 times the price. It's not that Mac is the Best anymore but they are still one of the best and I like that a lot. BTW I just purchased another Niagara 5000 and Dragon power cord for my 1.25 to my Thor so that each of my (3) 1.25's will have its own 20 amp line and AQ Niagara 5000 power conditioner with Dragon power cord. I absolutely love the sound and looks of my 1.25's. They are the most beautiful amps I have personally ever seen. Pics do not do them justice. It's good to see someone like Med Designer make good sensible choices. I also think the C-22 would have been just fine.

____________________
Charles
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3)
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) and Wilson Watch Controller
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and IC’s; Dragon power cords (8)
Sub-woofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable; Wolf IC and Hurricane power cords (2)
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (2); (4) 20-amp lines

[PeterMusic]

Hi Charles,

Nice rig! If it makes you feel any better about today's prices, I periodically think I'm "ridiculous" for dropping the amount I did on a system much more modest than yours.

Poor man wanna be rich
Rich man wanna be King
King ain't satisfied till...

Cheers

[ps7256]

Originally Posted by damacman

Sorry, but I'd be returning that to the dealer post haste.

Yup

[scapa]

I love my C22 -- along with my 275 VI, the best hi-fi purchase I've made by far. The C-70 seems to follow in the paths of the 2300/C22, and looks an excellent purchase also. Enjoy it in good health!

[med_designer]

I have officially adopted a C70, have have it set up and have listened to two complete albums and will comment on sound and presentation after more extensive listening. That being said my initial impressions are good and I am liking what I am hearing. I feel like a 3D presentation and an ever so slightly soft tonality has been introduced that is very pleasing. Currently set with tone controls engaged but running flat.

If I read the schematic correctly all signal go through a 12AX7 input stage and all signals go through a 12AT7 output stage.

Some things to figure out. The D1100 and C70 use the same remote and remote codes. Changing volume on the C70 will change the displayed volume on the D1100 (using fixed out of course). Where this may be an issue is how one sets the meters source. I like it on variable because many albums are so hot the meters are just pegged all the time. It would be great to set the D1100 to a reference level and leave it but have volume changes on the C70 not effect the D1100 when using the remote. The other down side of the same codes is if you change the input on the D1100 the C70 will change as well. Any ideas here would be great.

More to come

[DougR]

This would drive me bonkers! Give McIntosh support a call to see if the IR code can be changed. It is programmed to a specific hex code so maybe they have a way to change it with a few button pushes. That would be my hope anyway.