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Old 03-04-2019, 12:54 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Default Alternate theory to Lunar Tides

Another thing that always puzzled me (there are many ) was the Lunar Tides and the effects it has on our oceans. The high and low tide. Keep in mind they are happening at once on both sides of the planet, not just the side of the Earth that is facing the Moon.

Now, I have read many explanations how the Moon's gravity "pulls and tugs on the oceans causing a "bulge". Of course to account for the other side of our planet, the explanation goes something like this: The Moon tugs on the Earth so the water on the other side of the Planet also bulges out as the Earth is essentially is tugged by the Moon.




Not being satisfied with that answer since no lake, pond or pool for that matter experiences "tides" nor does a water bubble get pulled towards the moon in space on the ISS (space station in zero gravity) for example, I looked for a better explanation.

I found the better explanation:

Smaller bodies of water, like lakes and pools, don't have noticeable tidal bulges because they lack enough liquid to create pressure that can visibly overcome the pull of Earth's gravity.

Our tidal bulges are actually the product of a complex dance of gravity between the moon, Earth, and sun. And the total effect is more of a "push" than a "pull" on Earth's water.

Although each drop of water on Earth is indeed pulled by the moon's gravity, the effect isn't noticeable on a molecular level since the Earth's inward pull is overpowering.

The key, however, is that ocean water covers about 71% of Earth's surface and is connected as one liquid body. This allows the small force on each water molecule to collectively add up to "a pretty decent increase in water pressure.



That answer satisfied me but not for long...



Let's consider some facts....


The Earth's gravity is about 10 Million times stronger than the Moon. Rough/crude example of who wins the tug is a scale with exactly 100 grams on one side and 101 grams on the other. The 101 gram side wins and the scale leaves it's balance point and tips towards the 101 gram side.... With me so far?

So if the Earth has a 10 Million times stronger gravity pull and we know how water molecules behave, that in great numbers the water molecules exhibit "surface tension", wouldn't the 10 Million times more gravity overcome the minuscule pull of the Moon and keep the oceans exactly where they are? Strength in numbers for the water molecules and surface tension becoming even more of a "magnet" for the Earth's gravity. Doesn't that make sense???



So here goes my alternate theory to which I obviously have no proof but only my inner intuition.

Recently it has been discovered that there is roughly the same or more amount of water deep under the Earth's crust.

It has been discovered that these bodies of water communicate. (Water underneath the crust and oceans on the surface)


It is therefore my belief that the Earth's Tides are caused by Tectonic Plate shifts deep underneath the Earth's surface which "pushes" more water to the surface of Earth and "pulls" the water back down. This mechanism may have predictable and accurate timing due to the rotation of the Earth and the shifting of the plates. Perhaps even due to the complex and combined gravitational pull of the Moon and the Sun.


From an article: This water, which is bound up in rock, could indicate the largest water reservoir on the planet. It is believed that plate tectonics cycle the water in and out, and the water affects the partial melting of rock in the mantle.

"Geological processes on the Earth's surface, such as earthquakes or erupting volcanoes, are an expression of what is going on inside the Earth, out of our sight"




So for my own "alternate theory" The Earth's tides have nothing to do with the paltry pull of the Moon's gravity causing "bulges" in the oceans on both sides of the Earth. I believe the Earth itself is causing tides with its hidden secrets down below. The bulges on both sides are caused by influx of water to the surface, flatter at the Poles due to Earth's rotation of course and then the water is sucked back down by the same mechanism.

Perhaps what we attribute to the Moon and its gravitational pull is only due to a "convenient" explanation in the absence of other? We can attribute the tides to the orbit of the Moon but does that really make the Moon the culprit if there is another force that is also predicable in timing and effect?

In any case, that's my theory and it sure makes more sense than anything I've ever read before on this topic. Take it for what it is, no proof, no math, just my own inner intuition.

Last edited by PHC1; 03-04-2019 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 12:57 AM
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Last edited by PHC1; 03-04-2019 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:23 AM
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Expanding on the topic. So if the Ocean's are supposedly affected by the Moon, then what of the large bodies of water like Great Lakes?

Well...

Studies indicate that the Great Lakes spring tide, the largest tides caused by the combined forces of the sun and moon, is less than five centimeters in height. These minor variations are masked by the greater fluctuations in lake levels produced by wind and barometric pressure changes.

Consequently, the Great Lakes are considered to be non-tidal.

Water levels in the Great Lakes have long-term, annual, and short-term variations. Long-term variations depend on precipitation and water storage over many years. Annual variations occur with the changing seasons. There is an annual high in the late spring and low in the winter. These changes occur at a rate that can be measured in feet per month.

Wind and weather conditions on the Great Lakes may create a seiche, an oscillating wave which can be several feet high. In many of the Great Lakes, the time period between the “high” and “low” of a seiche may be between four and seven hours. As this is very similar to the six-hour time period of the tides on the ocean, it is frequently mistaken for a tide.


Turns out the biggest lake of them all, Lake Baikal at 12,200 sq miles does not have tides but "seiches" measured in millimeters....

So the oceans rise drastically but the lakes DO NOT....


So if the other bodies of water like Lake Baikal or Great Lakes are considered non-tidal.... Hmmmm, they must have a mind of their own when it comes to Moon's gravity?
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:47 AM
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Moving on to Tsunamis.


"A tsunami is a series of large waves generated by an abrupt movement on the ocean floor that can result from an earthquake, an underwater landslide, a volcanic eruption or - very rarely - a large meteorite strike.

However, powerful undersea earthquakes are responsible for most tsunamis. Seismologists say only earthquakes measuring greater than 7.0 on the Richter scale can produce a major tsunami.

Most earthquakes that generate tsunamis - including Friday's jolt off Japan's eastern coast - occur in areas called subduction zones, where pieces of the Earth's crust press against each other. Subduction means that one tectonic plate slides beneath another and sinks deep into the Earth's mantle.

The friction between two slow-moving plates of the Earth's crust creates vast amounts of seismic energy which is released in the form of an earthquake. When a strong undersea earthquake strikes a relatively short distance below the sea floor, it abruptly pushes up one of the immense plates of the Earth's crust. That suddenly displaces an enormous amount of ocean water which becomes a tsunami, spreading outward in every direction from the epicenter of an earthquake - like ripples on a pond, only on a much larger scale.

Tsunamis generated in the open ocean appear to be only small waves, but they can grow rapidly in size as they reach shallow water before crashing into seacoast settlements. Waves up to nine meters high have been recorded on numerous occasions, and tsunamis up to 30 meters high are believed to have occurred in the past. "









Pardon me for being skeptical and none of this is a "conspiracy theory" by any means. I just think we are missing a few pieces of the puzzle here given the enormous amount of water deep under the Earth's crust.

I have been in a 7.2 Earthquake myself. Let me just say that while the house shook and a few windows broke, the ground was not heaving and buckling as the above excerpt would have you believe.

Given the depth, size and sheer volume of water in an ocean, an earthquake of 7.0 creating a Tsunami? In my mind and I could be wrong, it would be akin to tapping a bathtub with your pinky finger and expecting the water to come rushing out of the bathtub....

Expanding on my wild theory, I believe that when an earthquake hits, there is tremendous amount of water being pumped to the surface from the beneath the crust adding to the volume of the ocean and explaining the rumored 30 ft waves....

Last edited by PHC1; 03-04-2019 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:58 AM
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This is a picture that conveys the message of what I am saying. This is just a representation of the recent discovery of the hidden oceans underneath the Earth's crust. Don't know about you guys but it makes more sense that there is a mechanism that we have yet to discover that pumps water back and forth to our oceans... Tectonic movement, perhaps something else.


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Old 03-04-2019, 02:17 AM
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Adding some more "weight" to my wild argument.

We now know that lakes do not have tides...

What creates a lake in the first place?

Lake basins are formed in several ways. ... When the glaciers melted, water filled those depressions, forming lakes. Glaciers also carved deep valleys and deposited large quantities of earth, pebbles, and boulders as they melted. These materials sometimes formed dams that trapped water and created more lakes. A lake is a body of standing water (not moving that is). This can include natural lakes (formed by glaciers, oxbows in rivers, or other natural processes) and impoundments

Ok, so the lakes are not being fed by underground water... Oceans on the other hand are communicating with the underground huge reserves of water.

Moon effects the oceans with low/high tides as much as 12 feet in some places. Lakes silently stand still.... Even Lake Baikal at 12,000 sq miles of water. Follow me?
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:32 AM
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Boiling it all down to a few sentences.

Gravity is the most important force that creates tides. In 1687, Sir Isaac Newton explained that ocean tides result from the gravitational attraction of the Sun and moon on Earth’s oceans.


In 2014 we have discovered that there is a vast underground body of water that is the same size or larger than our ocean and there is clear evidence it opens up into our oceans.


We will go on believing in what Sir Isaac said in 1687 for a very long time gentlemen. That's just how it is.
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:43 AM
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MASSIVE Ocean of Water Found 620 Miles Below Earth's Surface


https://youtu.be/4Dpfy3lFC9c
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:51 AM
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To add to the confusion, turns out there is a new "form" of water deep below our planet's crust. An extremely "high pressure" form of water that has NEVER been observed in nature before, named ICE-VII


https://youtu.be/pgm4z8vJVVk

Last edited by PHC1; 03-04-2019 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:26 PM
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Has nothing to do with my own wild theory but...

What Physics Teachers Get Wrong About Tides!

https://youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4
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