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  #21  
Old 12-13-2015, 02:46 AM
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John49 John49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Indytown View Post
Best way is to face them to one another about an inch apart, one speaker out of phase and let them play continuous for 5 to 6 days at various volume levels and different types of music.
Throw a duvet over them too to absorb some of the sound. You can even use a 'burn-in' CD from a speaker manufacturer like Monitor Audio.
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:29 AM
Patrick Butler Patrick Butler is offline
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Hi Venere,

Our Diamond domes are just that- diamond. We developed the domes with Element 6, which is a division of De Beers which specializes in synthetic diamonds. To my ear (and I worked for Sonus faber back with Franco Serblin was the owner, and Vienna Acoustics as well) they are the most natural tweeters I've heard. Those were all great tweeters back in the day, but listen to any musician play a drum kit and to my ear, the top end of a drum kit sounds distinctly unnatural (albeit, pleasant.) I'm reminded of this when I go hear live jazz in small clubs.

Any perceived diamond dome brightness is likely a result of setup/room interaction issue with an individual system. As an example, if I'm putting together a system and cannot get proper loading in the bass (a room acoustics issue), the perceived balance will be lean in the bass and hot on the top end. Resetting up the speakers for proper bass loading restores the proper balance and the top end no longer sounds bright.

Best regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


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Originally Posted by Venere View Post
For me, the obvious solution to the "obvious tweeter" problem has always been to buy speakers that use silk dome tweeters. They just sound more natural to me. Every metal dome tweeter I've heard has called attention to itself, and if I understand the tech correctly B&Ws diamond tweeter is aluminum at heart. I find it interesting that Wilson is gradually replacing all their beryllium tweeters with what is essentially a pretty basic silk dome. Also, Magico has clearly toned down their older tweeter with a warmer-sounding tweeter (regardless of the fancy tech explanation they give for their new diamond coating process). It seems that many folks are discovering what Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustics buyers have known for a long time..silk dome tweeters simply sound pleasant and natural, like real music.
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2015, 12:22 PM
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scirica scirica is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi Venere, Our Diamond domes are just that- diamond. We developed the domes with Element 6, which is a division of De Beers which specializes in synthetic diamonds. To my ear (and I worked for Sonus faber back with Franco Serblin was the owner, and Vienna Acoustics as well) they are the most natural tweeters I've heard. Those were all great tweeters back in the day, but listen to any musician play a drum kit and to my ear, the top end of a drum kit sounds distinctly unnatural (albeit, pleasant.) I'm reminded of this when I go hear live jazz in small clubs. Any perceived diamond dome brightness is likely a result of setup/room interaction issue with an individual system. As an example, if I'm putting together a system and cannot get proper loading in the bass (a room acoustics issue), the perceived balance will be lean in the bass and hot on the top end. Resetting up the speakers for proper bass loading restores the proper balance and the top end no longer sounds bright. Best regards, Patrick B&W Group North America
Makes sense, and valuable for you to validate the tweeter construction. Beyond that you probably have to be considered overly biased.

I can't do B&W due to the top end. When compared (for me) to Revel, Focal, and now my Bryston Model T's, B&W just "screams". And not in a Steven Tyler way.
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2015, 12:48 PM
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I don't believe it have anything to do with the room Acoustics when I auditioned the 803's D3. In the same room I also auditioned the Sonus Fabre Olympica 3 with same setup and the Olympica 3 sounds natural and balance. I could sit there and listen to the Olympica 3 all day and not feeling fatigued. I do like to hear a 803's D3 that is properly broken in and make my final assessment.
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Last edited by Spinpsycho; 12-13-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:12 PM
Venere Venere is offline
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I don't believe it have anything to do with the room Acoustics when I auditioned the 803's D3. In the same room I also auditioned the Sonus Fabre Olympica 3 with same setup and the Olympica 3 sounds natural and balance. I could sit there and listen to the Olympica 3 all day and not feeling fatigued. I do like to hear a 803's D3 that is properly broken in and make my final assessment.
As Confuciius said....that's why there's chocolate and vanilla. To each his own. I get Patricks point and may even concede that B&Ws sound more "live" , but when I listen I prefer to relax and have a nice warm lush sound. Others want more excitement. Sort of like tawny port vs a high tannin Cabernet/Bourdeaux. No doubt musical tastes and room acoustics enter into the equation as well. We all have different priorities. As always, its great the have Patrick's knowledge available to us. Finally, when I heard the new 803s I liked them much better than any previous B&W i had ever auditioned, especially in the treble. My comments were very general regarding the differences between metal and silk domes. Per Patrick the diamond tweeter really isnt metal.
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:18 PM
all2ears all2ears is offline
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Patrick - Thanks for the info but I have to agree with Scirica & Spinpsycho it goes beyond the room and the set up - On my first audition I tried an 803 D3 and played with toe in and position but had no effect integrating the tweeter - Then I listened to a few other spreakers in the same room with absolutely no tweeter issues - Yesterday I demo'd an 802 D2 - The speaker was a few years old and well broken in and the tweeter was more subdued but i could still hear it as separate from the other drivers

That doesn't make them bad speakers - The mids were detailed and the bass had great authority - Still the tweeter was too bright for my ears even after years of playing - That said a friend who was with me liked the overall sound .... he thought the "Obvious Tweeter" added to the character of the speaker - His impression was Revels were more naturally revealing but B & W had a unique signature speaker sound

B & W makes a terrific speaker - The craftsmanship, engineering and quality control are top of the line - Their reputation is well deserved - I really wanted to love them but for me they aren't making the short list

Like Mark Twain said, "It is the difference of opinion that makes horse races".

PS -- I am taking 2FastDriving's advice and going to try out the Wilson Sabrina and Sasha (I had silk tweeters in my DCM Time Windows and remember them fondly as an all time favorite) - Since I split my system 50/50 between music and movies it will be fun to see how Wilson does on movies .... their center channel does seem interesting

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and happy listening

Last edited by all2ears; 12-13-2015 at 07:55 PM.
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2015, 01:44 PM
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GreginNH1 GreginNH1 is offline
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It's getting better. After some experimentation with speaker placement, the tweeter issue has gotten much better, all things considered. I have a challenging room set up and it's going to take some time but I'm making progress. I'm not quite ready to "lower the spikes" yet!
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  #28  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Venere View Post
As Confuciius said....that's why there's chocolate and vanilla. To each his own.
Just pointing out the sounds characteristics of 803's D3. If you prefer this type of soundstage maybe look into Klipsch Speaker's and save thousands.
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2015, 09:25 AM
joey_v joey_v is offline
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I am perfectly fine with the D3 tweeter. I like it.

It is sensitive to room placement and the room itself.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2015, 11:12 AM
Art Vandelay Art Vandelay is offline
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Originally Posted by all2ears View Post
That said a friend who was with me liked the overall sound .... he thought the "Obvious Tweeter" added to the character of the speaker - His impression was Revels were more naturally revealing but B & W had a unique signature speaker sound
Although I don't hear an 'obvious tweeter' in my 800 diamonds, I concede that bright recordings can be a bit too hot in some instances, and there's no shortage of bright masters these days.

As I've said many times, the Revels are simply sublime in the mids and treble so I'm not surprised that you're looking at Wilsons as a possible upgrade path.

I would make this one point though. If I was choosing speakers for HT as well as 2 channel audio I would definitely choose the B&W 800 series over Revel Ultima's.

800 Diamonds in a HT setup is really quite an experience.
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