BIG Shootout: Audeze LCD-4 vs Focal Utopia !

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Robert_Anderson

You know, there are so many options and so many improvements, sometimes it is easy to get lost in the technology and trying to keep up; of which I am guilty of, and why I own over 40 pair of exotic headphones. When home last, I listened to a pair of Sennheiser 600's with a cheap Woo (SE-6?, one big tube and two little ones, I forget the actual model number) and was stunned at just how musical the setup was. Just something to ponder.

The 600s lend themselves well to tubes for sure. All in all the 300 ohm 600/650 with a tube amp like Woo is magic in itself.

[greekgod]

Headphones don't replace the thrill I get from listening to a pair of B&W Diamonds. However, headphones are an audiophile bargain that come pretty darn close! You can get incredible sound at a tiny fraction of what it would cost to have an ultra-high end system set up in a custom built dedicated room.

[W9TR]

Earlier this year I got the first pair of headphones since I kicked my Koss Pro 4/a's to the curb a long time ago.

They are LCD-4's.

I got them to not disturb Kelly when she is sleeping because our listening areas are fairly open to the rest of the house.

It has been a very 'interesting' listening experience.

They are super low distortion - always very clear. They let me listen 'inside' the music to fine details that are there but not as obvious with my speakers.

They are super hi-fi. As others have said it would take a lot of $$$ to come close to this quality of reproduction in a normal 2 channel system.

The room is no longer a factor. What is weird is that I can now 'hear' the room much more clearly when I listen to my speakers. I didn't expect that.

The imaging is different. Everything is pretty close to my head, but it does extend outside of my ears, which is pretty cool. I understand this doesn't happen with most headphones

I get this wide and deep soundstage with my speakers that headphones just don't duplicate.

I imagine that with some great dsp this issue can be ameliorated. Audeze has a nice plug in, but it adds room sound, and that's not what I really want.

I find it odd to be 'tethered'.

Overall I'm sure you can't go wrong with any of the great headphone options out there today.

We're in the middle of a headphone renaissance and I'm really enjoying the experience, even though it is completely different that listening to speakers.

Tom

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Earlier this year I got the first pair of headphones since I kicked my Koss Pro 4/a's to the curb a long time ago.

They are LCD-4's.

I got them to not disturb Kelly when she is sleeping because our listening areas are fairly open to the rest of the house.

It has been a very 'interesting' listening experience.

They are super low distortion - always very clear. They let me listen 'inside' the music to fine details that are there but not as obvious with my speakers.

They are super hi-fi. As others have said it would take a lot of $$$ to come close to this quality of reproduction in a normal 2 channel system.

The room is no longer a factor. What is weird is that I can now 'hear' the room much more clearly when I listen to my speakers. I didn't expect that.

The imaging is different. Everything is pretty close to my head, but it does extend outside of my ears, which is pretty cool. I understand this doesn't happen with most headphones

I get this wide and deep soundstage with my speakers that headphones just don't duplicate.

I imagine that with some great dsp this issue can be ameliorated. Audeze has a nice plug in, but it adds room sound, and that's not what I really want.

I find it odd to be 'tethered'.

Overall I'm sure you can't go wrong with any of the great headphone options out there today.

We're in the middle of a headphone renaissance and I'm really enjoying the experience, even though it is completely different that listening to speakers.

Tom

Tom, most headphones are able to recreate the depth of soundstage with ease but the width and out of headphone type of imaging is a bit elusive and depends on the recording, amplification and cabling. The SPL Phonitor for example easily recreates the width and depth as that is what it was designed to do in a recording studio so the sound engineer can evaluate the mix in headphones which otherwise would be impossible to do with accuracy of stereo monitor speakers in the studio. So it works to say the least.

I do think most headphone listeners with time, learn to recreate the soundstage in their head but it does take time. I used headphones for about 5 years exclusively back in the day and the soundstage was no problem as long as the recording was not panned hard right/left. Some of the most memorable and magical listening sessions where in fact with headphones and a German made OTL tube amp.

[W9TR]

I'm getting some width and it is pretty amazing. I don't know if it is in my head as a perceived response or if it is real.

Back in the '80's I was involved with some audio localization projects at Wright Patterson AFB. The idea was to present threats to the pilot aurally based on the direction the threats were coming from. So for example a cruise missile coming up your tailpipe would be heard below and behind you.

Don't know what ultimately happened to that project but the performance in terms of spatial accuracy was very very good.

That leads me to believe that some of the best aspects of 2 channel listening on speakers can be replicated in headphones with the right dsp.

One interesting imaging test is Roger Walters 'Amused to Death'. When listening to my speakers, there are sounds coming from far left, far right and even behind (is that possible? - guess so) that lose their impact and directionality when played on headphones.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by W9TR

I'm getting some width and it is pretty amazing. I don't know if it is in my head as a perceived response or if it is real.

Back in the '80's I was involved with some audio localization projects at Wright Patterson AFB. The idea was to present threats to the pilot aurally based on the direction the threats were coming from. So for example a cruise missile coming up your tailpipe would be heard below and behind you.

Don't know what ultimately happened to that project but the performance in terms of spatial accuracy was very very good.

That leads me to believe that some of the best aspects of 2 channel listening on speakers can be replicated in headphones with the right dsp.

One interesting imaging test is Roger Walters 'Amused to Death'. When listening to my speakers, there are sounds coming from far left, far right and even behind (is that possible? - guess so) that lose their impact and directionality when played on headphones.

Ah yes, the Roger Waters "Amused to Death" is a Qsound recording. Lot's of spatial and phase trickery going on there. Track 3 "Perfect Sense" should have the old man's voice on your left shoulder and breathing into your left ear if the speakers are positioned properly in your room. Kind of spooky to say the least. It is pretty much the same with headphones but the old man appears slightly behind the left shoulder/ear. The rolling thunder does not appear overhead as it does with 2 channel though.

[W9TR]

QSound is capable of some amazing spatial positioning. Very cool.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by bart

The Audeze for me is simply too heavy...

Bart, this carbon fiber headband from Audeze solves most discomfort issues if you find Audeze heavy. It spreads the weight of the headphones more evenly with less pressure points on top of the head. The neck muscles, well, they just have to get used to the weight. My LCD2Classics have a similar headband but not carbon fiber. They are the same weight as LCD3 more or less but feel much lighter on my head.

[bart]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Bart, this carbon fiber headband from Audeze solves most discomfort issues if you find Audeze heavy. It spreads the weight of the headphones more evenly with less pressure points on top of the head. The neck muscles, well, they just have to get used to the weight. My LCD2Classics have a similar headband but not carbon fiber. They are the same weight as LCD3 more or less but feel much lighter on my head.

Serge, thank you for this information!

[smatsui324]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Bart, this carbon fiber headband from Audeze solves most discomfort issues if you find Audeze heavy. It spreads the weight of the headphones more evenly with less pressure points on top of the head. The neck muscles, well, they just have to get used to the weight. My LCD2Classics have a similar headband but not carbon fiber. They are the same weight as LCD3 more or less but feel much lighter on my head.

I have the carbon fiber headband on my LCD X (2014 edition) that made a night vs day difference for overall comfort. I was about to sell my LCD X because I couldn't wear them more than 30 minutes without discomfort. With the carbon fiber headband, I can wear them for hours without any issues.

Last week I sold my Stax SR-009 headphones and my Ray Samuels electrostatic headphone amp because my Focal Utopias with a Wywires Platinum balanced cable gets most of headphone listening time. My other headphones are the LCD X, HD800 with SDR mod and 19ga OCC Cu cable hardwired to the drivers and painted matte black by Colorware (they look exactly like the 800s), AQ Nighthawks, and vintage modified AKG K340. I've been into high end headphones for over 25 years. That said, I still prefer to listen to either of my 2 speaker based stereo systems. Headphones and speaker systems each have their place in my household. I like listening to headphones late at night before I go to bed.