Scala v2 to Stella

[inga]

Originally Posted by Bar81

What do you mean by "bad experience"?

Slooooow sound. Muddy and uncontrolled in uper bass. Seems like speakers just sleeping and yawning

[Bar81]

Originally Posted by inga

Slooooow sound. Muddy and uncontrolled in uper bass. Seems like speakers just sleeping and yawning

You have good ears. I would describe the sound with Ayre amps as lacking dynamics and sounding closed in but I think we are saying essentially the same thing - the speakers sound like they are being lazy . It still sounds good but it's definitely missing a lot. This is why I am changing my amplifiers.

[inga]

Maestro tuned to very lean and fast sounding amps in Focal factory(Halcro DM88) so they need very fast amps and very fast DAC's, cables to sound the way they were tuned. Othervise they will sound closed in in the mids and slow(especialy on low volume and especialy if room is well treated - its just too much of politeness on any except very hard metal/rock records)

4psc Ayre MXR in biamping with 4x Nordost Odin cables sounds decent with Nova Be and Stella EM(but not with Maestro), they are musical amps which does not shock you with details, speed and control. I belive they are ment to be used with fast /lean and easy load speakers and mostyl jazz vocal musics.

[Bar81]

I'm not a fan of Halcro so not sure that would ever be an amp I would consider. Also not sure how they could be using the dm88 - it simply is not capable of properly driving the Maestro. From the Stereophile review:

The measured output power at 1% THD+N was greater than specified, at 295W into 8 ohms (24.7dBW) and 525W into 4 ohms (24.2dBW). The dm88 is less happy driving 2 ohms, however, clipping at 266W (18.2dBW).

Not sure what "fast" components and cables are. I'm guessing what you mean are relatively neutral components and cables that don't oversweeten the music/make it slower and more romantic - i.e., when the music calls for it, the components and cables can keep up with the speed of the music. That was the main thing I didn't like about the D'Agostino Momentum Pre in a recent audition and why I'm such a fan of the Ayre KX-R Twenty.

In terms of tuning to lean amps, I'm not sure I can agree with you there. The Maestro is less warm than the Scala - very neutral - a lean amp would be a bad idea.

Anyway we'll see if I know what I'm talking about when my M400s arrive. Either my idea of what the Maestros need and can do will be on the money or I will be one *very* unhappy camper.

[inga]

there is technolgical things (ability to drive down to 2ohms) and subjectively. they just used Halcro DM88 to design it.

I woud not consider MU as lean by all means except in very bright and bass absorbing listening enviroments. It have lushness of uper bass/lower midrange like earlier sonus faber speakers but without dark ,blurry midrange(midrange just are litle bit reccesed ,especialy at low levels) I live with them for 8 years and know its sonics quite well. They need to be taken out of the walls (both back and side) and amplifiers should be fast and with lot of control. Otherwise sound is too polite in midrange in low listening levelsn and sound just will not flow efortlesly.

[Bar81]

Okay. What amplifiers are you using with them?

[inga]

At them moment I drive them with Mola Mola Kaluga.

[Bar81]

You're talking about 1,200W at 2ohms. That makes sense in terms of power.

Used in initial design, I can believe that, however, as I said there's no way the dm88 was used as the final design amp with the Maestro Utopias; it's simply physically impossible for them to properly drive a speaker with an impedance curve like this:



I find SF to be very warm speakers (I know you have a pair) and nothing in the Maestro reminds me of SF that I've heard. As I said earlier, I find the Maestro to be leaner than the Scalas which I didn't find to be warm speakers to begin with; however, I'm using the Maestro in a concrete/tile living room so can't comment on what one would hear in another better treated room, plus my MX-R Twenties don't have enough power so who knows what I'll hear when my new amps come in in terms of your comments about warmth in upper bass.

Ultimately, I think our versions of lean and warm are probably just different as we seem to both hear about the same - I've read your earlier comments on Maestro and find them to be generally reflected in my listening over the past several months.

[inga]

I absolutely not arguing about Halcro technical ability to drive MU, neither its perfect maching to MU. I just wrote fact that they were designed with Halcro.

Probably our description of warm differs a bit. By saying warm I mean upper bass is stronger than midrange. Speakers quite neutral trought midrange/hights but upper bass is elevated.

Sonus faber is “warm” not because it have elevated bass but because upper midrange is darker- its not flat. Its very forgiving on bad records(at least Guarneri memento, and bigger Stradivari I had) But speed, resolution in midrange absolutely diferent. Yet I call both speakers warm, just diferently. Lean speakers for example is Wilson Audio Watt Puppies.

I believe big diferencies is in listening enviroment, and I’m sure we have very diferent sound from them.
If you have “lean” room I sugest to look at older pass labs xa160.5 , it may not have best resolution of bass , neither razor sharp in the crowd but it will make sound MU more lush and enjoyable.

[Bar81]

That makes sense. However, I'm not looking for a lush presentation - that was something else I didn't like about the Momentum Pre in my recent audition - too sweet. I like almost every type of music and romantic sound does not work for my purposes.

Right now I cannot tell anything about the upper bass of the Maestro since the Ayre is not controlling it well so it sounds tubby and fat but Stereophile measurements seem to confirm what you are hearing.

I've already ordered D'Agostino Momentum M400. Based on my demo compared to my Ayres I expect total control of the entire range but with delicacy even better than my Ayres with a slight additional warmth. I am most curious about the treble - the M400 is very smooth up top - very different sound than the Ayre amps which can be harsh. Want to play around to see if treble high jumper can be used as right now it sounds too harsh with that setting. The treble high jumper makes the sound more open.