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  #11  
Old 03-14-2020, 10:14 AM
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brownbear brownbear is offline
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What outputs are you using?
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Joe
Great Room: 2 Channel System
Amplifier: McIntosh MC312
Preamp: McIntosh C22 Mk V (Gold Lion Tubes)
DAC/CD/SACD: McIntosh MCD12000
Streaming Source: Aurender N10; UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch; AfterDark Project Clayx Giesemann OCXO 10MHz Reference Queen Master Clock w/ Black Modernize LPS x 2 Giesemann OCXO 10M Edition
Speakers: Canton Reference 3K
Power: 2x Dedicated 20 Amp Breakers + Whole House Surge Protection
Power Outlets: PS Audio Power Ports
Power Resonators: ADD-Powr Sorcer x4 (at service panel); ADD-Powr Wizard; ADD-Powr eau2; ADD-Powr Symphony (in network closet)
Power Distribution: Shunyata Denali 6000/S v2
Power Cables: Shunyata Delta v2 XC (Denali v2 to dedicated 20A Outlet); Shunyata Venom NR v10 (Amp to Denali v2); Shunyata Delta v2 NR (Preamp to Denali v2); Shunyata Alpha v2 NR (DAC to Denali v2); Shunyata Venom NR v12 (Wizard to dedicated 20A Outlet); Shunyata Venom V14 Digital (Streamer and Master Clock LPS to Denali v2)
Speaker Cables: Shunyata Sigma v1; Shunyata Sigma v1 Jumpers
Audio Cables: Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 XLR (Preamp to Amp); Wireworld Gold Eclipse 8 XLR (DAC Tube and Solid State Outputs to Preamp); Shunyata Sigma USB (Streamer to DAC); Shunyata Sigma v2 AES/EBU (Streamer to DAC); Shunyata Venom Ethernet (Wall Wart to EtherREGEN); Shunyata Sigma Ethernet (EtherREGEN to Streamer); Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 75-Ohm BNC (AfterDark Queen Master Clock to EtherREGEN); Wireworld Platinum Starlight 7 S/PDIF (Streamer to DAC)
Isolation: Stillpoints Ultra SS (Under Speakers); Stillpoints Ultra Mini's (Under Preamp and DAC); HRS E1 Isolation Platform w/G7 Feet and G-Links (Under Amp and Master Clock/LPS); HRS E1 Isolation Platform w/G7 Feet (Under Streamer); Shunyata DarkField Suspension System and DarkField Mini Elevators (Under Speaker Cables); IsoAcoustics Iso-Pucks (Under EtherREGEN)
Noise Reduction: HRS DPX-14545 Damping Plate (On Amp and Preamp); HRS DPII-14545 Damping Plate (On DAC)
Grounding: Shunyata Alpha v3 CGC/SGC Ground Cable (DAC to Denali v2); Shunyata Delta v2 CGC/SGC Ground Cable (EtherREGEN to Denali v2)
Rack: Quadraspire SVT


Sun Room
Wireless Speaker: McIntosh RS200
Power Resonator: ADD-Powr Symphony Pro
Power Distribution: Shunyata Venom PS8 w/ Venom Defender
Power Cables: Shunyata Delta NR (Venom PS8 to Wall Outlet); Wireworld Silver Electra 7 (RS200 to Venom PS8)
Isolation: IsoAcoustics Iso-Pucks
Rack: Pangea Audio Vulcan
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2020, 05:22 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbear View Post
What outputs are you using?
Brown bear, very nice system. Mac SACD players truly give you SACD performance. Many very expensive digital rigs do not. They do a better job than this particular CD player but there is a very significant sonic difference between a CD player that will play SACD's and a true SACD player. I have many wonderful SACD's. Three of my very best recordings are SACD's: Camille Saint-Saens The Philadelphia Orchestra ODE 1094-S Berliner Philharmoniker Sir Simon Rattle Beethoven Symphonies 1-9 BPHR 160093 Telarc Beethoven Sympnony NO. 9 Donald Runnicles Atlanta Symphony Orchestra SACD 60603. Folks talk a lot about vinyl but I think there are significantly more excellent SACD's out there than vinyl. I have a whole collection of wonderful SACD's and believe me, a player that can "play" an SACD the way it is meant to be played is sonically superior to an ultra expensive CD player that can play SACD as an afterthought.

____________________
Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house

Last edited by Charles; 03-15-2020 at 05:28 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2020, 06:53 AM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Brown bear, very nice system. Mac SACD players truly give you SACD performance. Many very expensive digital rigs do not. They do a better job than this particular CD player but there is a very significant sonic difference between a CD player that will play SACD's and a true SACD player. I have many wonderful SACD's. Three of my very best recordings are SACD's: Camille Saint-Saens The Philadelphia Orchestra ODE 1094-S Berliner Philharmoniker Sir Simon Rattle Beethoven Symphonies 1-9 BPHR 160093 Telarc Beethoven Sympnony NO. 9 Donald Runnicles Atlanta Symphony Orchestra SACD 60603. Folks talk a lot about vinyl but I think there are significantly more excellent SACD's out there than vinyl. I have a whole collection of wonderful SACD's and believe me, a player that can "play" an SACD the way it is meant to be played is sonically superior to an ultra expensive CD player that can play SACD as an afterthought.

____________________
Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house
The SACD player you reference from Mac came out after this 14 year old Esoteric (really 15 yrs when you consider when design would been frozen). There was a small change in mastering and cutting SACDs subsequent to 2005 when the X-03 design would have been finalized that caused a need for simple firmware update. Not all SACD vendors followed it either.

That does NOT make the X-03 or the SE version only a CD player with SACD play as an afterthought as you claim in any apparent effort to promote the Mac offering which came out later that you favor and would have by design been able to play both gen1 and gen2 SACDs just like later generation Esoteric players (P-02 and others...) . The P-03U and X-01 all required updates, that is a fact. The number of discs affected was small. DCS, EMMlabs Oppo and many others would have had to in the designs that came later.

Esoteric/others are not omniscient,...in 2004 to 2005 they could not have designed for a change that came some years later. If memory serves, the first SACD i bought that showed the gap between player and latest spec that pointed me towards Esoteric tech support for my P03U transport was round about 2011 to 2012 more or less and was 1 out of about 35 to 40 new SACDs I ordered. The fix took a few minutes to call, get support right away and download with basic skills to upgrade. A bootable firmware CD could also have been mailed out if necessary. Have not had a single issue

FWIW...

Last edited by SCAudiophile; 03-15-2020 at 11:56 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:25 AM
GSOphile GSOphile is online now
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SCAudiophile, thanks for the SACD history lesson. I was not aware of that. Result sounds somewhat similar to what happened to my mid-90s Proceed CD player after some newer CD releases started coming out with 'watermarks'.... or something (?) that made my player respond with nothing but a dumb look.
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  #15  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:25 AM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
SCAudiophile, thanks for the SACD history lesson. I was not aware of that. Result sounds somewhat similar to what happened to my mid-90s Proceed CD player after some newer CD releases started coming out with 'watermarks'.... or something (?) that made my player respond with nothing but a dumb look.
YVW....I almost bought that Proceed player, HT 5.1 processor and amps! A friend who did is still running them to this day,...they were unbelievably well built!

One type of disc that an Esoteric of any kind and level will never play is the so-called "Dual Disc"...a bit thicker player and had RBCD and computer-readable CD program and data content. No loss really though it surprised me at the time (2006-2008)..
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  #16  
Old 03-15-2020, 11:43 AM
michael paul michael paul is offline
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brownbear, I have used xlr and single ended with the same results. I also tried using a digital coax cable with the esoteric (used as a transport) to my auralic vega dac. The dac played the 44.1 version and did not play the sacd version.

A friend is bringing over a few sacds I want to try them all for the heck of it.
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  #17  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:49 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
The SACD player you reference from Mac came out after this 14 year old Esoteric (really 15 yrs when you consider when design would been frozen). There was a small change in mastering and cutting SACDs subsequent to 2005 when the X-03 design would have been finalized that caused a need for simple firmware update. Not all SACD vendors followed it either.

That does NOT make the X-03 or the SE version only a CD player with SACD play as an afterthought as you claim in any apparent effort to promote the Mac offering which came out later that you favor and would have by design been able to play both gen1 and gen2 SACDs just like later generation Esoteric players (P-02 and others...) . The P-03U and X-01 all required updates, that is a fact. The number of discs affected was small. DCS, EMMlabs Oppo and many others would have had to in the designs that came later.

Esoteric/others are not omniscient,...in 2004 to 2005 they could not have designed for a change that came some years later. If memory serves, the first SACD i bought that showed the gap between player and latest spec that pointed me towards Esoteric tech support for my P03U transport was round about 2011 to 2012 more or less and was 1 out of about 35 to 40 new SACDs I ordered. The fix took a few minutes to call, get support right away and download with basic skills to upgrade. A bootable firmware CD could also have been mailed out if necessary. Have not had a single issue

FWIW...
Excellent information. I was not referring to Esoteric which I believe has excellent SACD players. There are some super expensive digital rigs that are not really SACD players but that can be upgraded to play them. Some do not even play SACD at all.

My MCD1100 had a DIN Out as well as an AES/EBU included. The DIN Out is for the Mac proprietary MCT input into the D1100. The MCD1100 came out in about 2011.

It seems to me that at this point in time any digital player should be a true SACD player. To not have SACD is to miss some super recordings.

And I'm not attempting to promote Mac. May this forever be forbidden or even a suggestion of it. It seems on this website any attempt to say a positive word about Mac generates a false assumption and bitter reaction like yours. The MCD7000 which came out in 1985 cost about 5,000. It had one DAC for both channels. Mac has held the price of their digital equipment very steady so that folks can afford it. That's not promoting Mac. It's just a fact that the retail cost of an MCD600 SACD Player is 7,000 and is a great sounding player.

I would certainly expect and hope the Esoterics to sound superior (to Mac) otherwise what are you spending your money on? Very few have unlimited budgets. For me it is a question of diminishing returns for the sound improvement you achieve. I think if I have an unlimited budget I would have a Grandioso stack, no question.

____________________
Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house

Last edited by Charles; 03-15-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2020, 04:34 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Charles...thank you for your email. Appreciate the clarification very much. I have great respect for Mac for its entire brand history,..I thought long and hard about trying the MCD500 and later the 1100 after I heard them due to their wonderful sound qualty and value for the money aspects. When it came down to it, i simply prefer the sound of AKM and other DACs over Sabre. That does not however mean that I believe the 500 and 1100 are not great options at an unbelievably low and fair price!!!

As to my post or reaction as you call it...it was not bitter in the least, only posting an attempt at a factual response to clarify and to answer specific elements of your post and to help the OP towards resolution of his issue.

FWIW, I would have written the EXACT same text response and plugged in any other brand name in place of 'Mac' so your assumption on my post's contents, intent, ascribing an extremely negative emotion to it ( "bitter" ) are with respect, not correct. I am sorry you took it as Mac specific. I assure you, it is not!

Also FWIW, i read your post more than once and the context, within a thread with a question about another brand and a playback anomaly, and the sentence talking about true SACD support versus an afterthought seemed quite clear.

If I did not see your intent / meaning of those sentences in your post correctly, then you have an apology from me on this public thread!

Hope you are enjoying that fantastic system and speakers of yours!!! Would love to hear them some day!
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2020, 05:15 PM
GSOphile GSOphile is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
YVW....I almost bought that Proceed player, HT 5.1 processor and amps! A friend who did is still running them to this day,...they were unbelievably well built!
Unfortunately, I had to have the transport in my Proceed replaced twice. When the third one gave up the ghost, my dealer told me that they were out of transports. I loved the analogue volume control. Used it in place of a pre with excellent results.
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2020, 05:59 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
Unfortunately, I had to have the transport in my Proceed replaced twice. When the third one gave up the ghost, my dealer told me that they were out of transports. I loved the analogue volume control. Used it in place of a pre with excellent results.
Yes...it had a fantastic quality analog volume control!
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