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  #111  
Old 03-19-2020, 12:41 PM
MainAnalog MainAnalog is offline
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I agree that the Men220 isn't a reference source but a digital room system. Personally not a big fan of A/D then D/A with 10+ year old FPGA/ASICs.

The larger issue is my system has been stable for over a year since I went all tube McIntosh and my personal trust with my ears to hear what is subjectively accurate is very low given how used to the sound I have today. Which I love! But that nagging could it be better voice ... my current project for my 2 channel system would a subwoofer help/hurt or am I at diminishing returns. Just flipped on loudness :-)
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  #112  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:28 AM
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crwilli crwilli is offline
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Default Blasphemy to use "Tone Controls" on Mc Pre-Amp?

The MEN220 is many things. It’s not a source.

It offers Room Perfect DSP, customizable EQ and detailed crossover capabilities. I wouldn’t worry too much about the 10yr old tech without trying one in your system.

You could just use the room perfect. You could then create custom EQ settings to adjust to your rooms specific measurements and then if you add a sub, you could dial it in perfectly.

If you have a tough room environment, it might be perfect for you.
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  #113  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:53 AM
MainAnalog MainAnalog is offline
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I don't think I have a tough room environment but measurements will prove me right/wrong! The MEN220 does look like a swiss army knife of capabilities

I have worked in the semiconductor processor industry for >20 years so have an informed opinion about older processors. System designers are forced to make tradeoffs in a design: $ vs computational precision vs processing speed vs ease of programming. Then there is the point of diminishing returns. The Analog Devices announced the the dual-core ADSP-BF561 back in 2004 which is on the MEN220 motherboard which means it was designed 2001/2'ish. So a 20 year old design, not 10. I'd be stunned if the sound quality could not be improved upon with "modern" processors. I'm assuming very few of us have a 20-year-old CD player or DAC now :-)

My fervent hope is all I end up doing is buying a JL Audio subwoofer and potentially a crossover. IF I have a tougher room than I thought a 220 might be worth an audition

Thanks for your thoughts - I might reach out to my Mac dealer to see if he has a loaner 220
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Last edited by MainAnalog; 03-20-2020 at 12:06 PM.
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  #114  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:04 PM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is offline
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I don't think you'll enjoy the MEN220 if you do not have a tough room, but by all means try a loaner for a few days and decide for yourself.

Back to your broader question though of the next step to take to improve sound. Two ideas, both of which will improve the sound with no tradeoffs:

I like the subwoofer idea, and you can get a great one for half the price of a MEN220. JL is great, as is REL. I have a B&W DB3D which I love and has built in DSP. A sub will enable you to feel the music in way not possible with all but the most massive floor standers.

A bit more ambitious--I just added a Nordost QKore and QBase grounding system with a Frey 2 cable. It will end up more expensive than the MEN220, but I have been floored by the improvement in bass, resolution, air, and soundstage. Once again, I would get a loaner before you decide. If you try this with a song you know and love, I think the demo period will take about 20 seconds
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  #115  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:33 AM
MainAnalog MainAnalog is offline
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@PeterMusic - thanks for your thoughts. You suggestions are down my path of exploration. I love my speakers and the C22 and 275 amp so what would be my next meaningful upgrade. The list I'm researching: Sub (likely RL F112), upgrade my 6 year old Sumiko Blackbird cartridge (or entire turntable?) Or buy a second 275 (for 3db and some headroom). I don't ever listen near full volume so I think it's the last choice.

I'll start reading up on the Nordost suggestion. My dealer has been great on loaners

Is there a "what should my next upgrade be?" Thread here? A !/$ discussion because that's how I'm approaching it. Buy more music to enjoy is assumed...
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  #116  
Old 03-21-2020, 11:18 AM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is offline
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Hi MA--

Just replaced my signature which had fallen off before. As you can see, we are on the same page with amps and speakers that are hard to improve upon without introducing a host of other tradeoffs.

Excited for you to try QKore/QBase. If you do, pay attention to the power cord from the QBase to the wall. My loaner had a Red Dawn, and I loved it. But then I tried a Frey 2, and loved it even more. Both times I was very surprised by the level of improvement. Subsequently, I tried the Red Dawn vs stock cords on the C22 and MC275 AC connections to QBase, and could not perceive a significant difference.

Rock on!
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Last edited by PeterMusic; 03-21-2020 at 11:24 AM.
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  #117  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:44 PM
Msegal Msegal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MainAnalog View Post
@PeterMusic - thanks for your thoughts. You suggestions are down my path of exploration. I love my speakers and the C22 and 275 amp so what would be my next meaningful upgrade. The list I'm researching: Sub (likely RL F112), upgrade my 6 year old Sumiko Blackbird cartridge (or entire turntable?) Or buy a second 275 (for 3db and some headroom). I don't ever listen near full volume so I think it's the last choice.

I'll start reading up on the Nordost suggestion. My dealer has been great on loaners

Is there a "what should my next upgrade be?" Thread here? A !/$ discussion because that's how I'm approaching it. Buy more music to enjoy is assumed...


I use a C500T and mono MC275’s. I added stereo REL G1 subs with remarkable improvement in bass, treble, midrange body and imaging. I can not recommend these subs enough. BUT keep in mind that proper set up is essential for any subwoofer.

As far as power conditioning and cables go I love Shunyata. The higher up the range the better. Don’t be shy to spend ridiculous $$$ on it as the benefits seem to take the MC275 and C500 to much higher levels.

I also did a complete down to the studs update of my room with 12 gauge power, 6 dedicated 20A lines and sound insulation.

I would recommend any of these rather than go with a MEN220, but that’s just my personal opinion (no need to stone me).

I have not changed my system significantly in 5 years and have not felt a strong need.
That said IF I were looking to get back on the Merry Go Round I would consider updating my power and signal cables. I would also love to work a pair of MC901’s into my rig but my Focal Scala’s are not biwirable.

Good luck. [emoji256]

Mike S.
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  #118  
Old 03-22-2020, 08:43 AM
MainAnalog MainAnalog is offline
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I completely applaud:

"I also did a complete down to the studs update of my room with 12 gauge power, 6 dedicated 20A lines and sound insulation"

I dropped a Furman Elite 15 DM in when I upgraded from ML to McIntosh power. It's been a few years since I've touched anything too
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