McIntosh Blue Meter Confession. Heresy?!

[JMAC]

Warning: Some may find the following disturbing...not to mention way off topic.

It says way off topic because it was to be at the end of my, just completed, response to the "McIntosh C1100...Do I need a contingency plan?" by JWJW.

I imagine this is McIntosh heresy, but I rarely turn on the meter lights in the 3 pieces that have them, even though this is the first generation of Mc equipment, I believe, that one can control them all via remote control. This was also unexpected. In my decades of wanting, but not having McIntosh gear, my head, like that of most fans, I suppose, was filled with visions of Blue Meters (and sugar plums? ) It turns out that, with the rack right next to the speakers the meters are soooo bright that I don't want them on when listening to music at night, not to mention when watching a movie. I mostly listen at night, but during the day it doesn't occur to me to turn them on, probably because I've had them for, I'd guess 6 years, & I'd be surprised if the meter lights have 6 hours on them. Actually, I'm sure they don't. I've turned them on and off many times, almost always to read the MC452 VU meters. Other times just to show people "what McIntosh is known for".

[Vintage Pete]

You never have the meters on? OMG

[damacman]

I can dig it. I like the fact that you can do all of that remotely.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by JMAC

Warning: Some may find the following disturbing...not to mention way off topic.

It says way off topic because it was to be at the end of my, just completed, response to the "McIntosh C1100...Do I need a contingency plan?" by JWJW.

I imagine this is McIntosh heresy, but I rarely turn on the meter lights in the 3 pieces that have them, even though this is the first generation of Mc equipment, I believe, that one can control them all via remote control. This was also unexpected. In my decades of wanting, but not having McIntosh gear, my head, like that of most fans, I suppose, was filled with visions of Blue Meters (and sugar plums? ) It turns out that, with the rack right next to the speakers the meters are soooo bright that I don't want them on when listening to music at night, not to mention when watching a movie. I mostly listen at night, but during the day it doesn't occur to me to turn them on, probably because I've had them for, I'd guess 6 years, & I'd be surprised if the meter lights have 6 hours on them. Actually, I'm sure they don't. I've turned them on and off many times, almost always to read the MC452 VU meters. Other times just to show people "what McIntosh is known for".

John.......Like you, I spend most of my time in the studio with the meter lights turned off on the C1000P and the MC2301 amps. I also keep the room lighting dimmed or turned off via remote control. Yes, the blue meters are great fun to look at and show off, and periodically I will turn them on to check the wattage I am using, but usually I have my meters turned off. I find they command too much attention when I just want to be adrift in music. I also turn off the meter lighting on my MC452 in the HT rack when I am watching movies. I only want to be focused on the screen, not the rack. Not surprisingly, I felt the same way after a period of time looking at the tube window on my C1000C/T preamplifier. Again, they are quite commanding in gaining your attention. I grew bored staring at the green LED lighted tubes.

[ajdo]

When I owned my MC352 I use to keep meter off most of the time to save on bulbs life and avoid possible meter plastic (yellow) discoloration.
With C2300 and MC452 and Fiber Optic Light Diffusers and extra long life Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs), I keep meters on when I play music, roughly 5+ hours per day. Shutdown, turn off all my components otherwise.
My Esoteric K-01 display I shut down automatically after 15 minutes of no usage and I remove every CD after I'm finished playing. From what I understand K-01 incorporate bulbs and not led. K-01 does not have standby mode so I shut it down manually.
Would love to know if there is an advantage in keeping Esoteric k-01 always on and McIntosh component on standby when not in use ?

[JMAC]

Originally Posted by jdandy

John.......Like you, I spend most of my time in the studio with the meter lights turned off on the C1000P and the MC2301 amps. I also keep the room lighting dimmed or turned off via remote control. Yes, the blue meters are great fun to look at and show off, and periodically I will turn them on to check the wattage I am using, but usually I have my meters turned off. I find they command too much attention when I just want to be adrift in music. I also turn off the meter lighting on my MC452 in the HT rack when I am watching movies...

Wow, Dan. I could have stated most of that! My feelings exactly. The only difference is that I don't have the tube equipment. (nor a studio). I do have a small fortune in 100 year old electric lamps that I always dim. There are 10 antique table lamps and one antique floor lamp in the living room with system. That is about half of the total lamps in that room that are dimmed. I just counted and the total of ~100 year old lamps in the house is 15. When I think about that, I could have used that $ to pay for one of the speakers, but they are a big part of the enjoyment of the room.

[EDIT: maybe I'll add a few pics tomorrow] MORE edit: I was thinking that these lamps probably aren't what anyone is imagining so I just googled "100 year old lamps" like anyone might and the result was mostly old-type bulbs. Surprisingly, typing "100 year old table lamps" yielded fewer bulbs but really nothing like any of my lamps !! You could have knocked me over with a "feather boa" as Kelly Bundy once said. Here are a couple of quick pics from a website- as close to mine as I could quickly find












Speaking of dimming, they are all incandescent bubs. 40 watt or in a few cases, like the bases that light up on some, 25. I tried a couple of dimmable LEDs, but as you may know, they stay the same sterile white color temperature as they dim. I always knew, of course, that incandescent bulbs became more yellow as they are dimmed, but I didn't appreciate how much until I tried the LEDs. It's not the same cozy ambience. I don't know if it's just CA, but you cant get 40,60, 75 or 100 watt incandescent 'blubs' here anymore, except for specialty ones like for stove or refrigerator or ceiling fans, etc. So I hoarded some.

if anyone is interested:

Here is a chart from Lutron that shows how much "juice" you save and more importantly to me, how much longer incandescents LAST as you dim them. I always use them dimmed 50% and down from there. There are also 7 other floor lamps that are not old, but have glass torchere style shades that look like alabaster and they are dimmed as well so there is plenty of low-level light everywhere when dimmed. That's not why I have so many, though. I just likem'.

DIM LAST

10% = 2x

25% = 4x

50% = 20x

75% = >20x

Being ~ 2 years older than McIntosh, I figure that having enough to change them out twice should be plenty, BUT, I noticed on "The Big A" (Amazon) that I could get a 48-pack of 40watt bulbs in regular Medium base from GE. They were something less than $1 ea. So I did it.
I read 2 or 3 months ago, I think, that somebody in the industry wants to do something about LEDs not dimming like incandescents in regard to color temperature.. I read it in some magazine that I actually held in my hands. Pop Sci or Pop Mech or maybe Wired. I'm glad I bought the bulbs, though, because I'm not 100% confident that I will like the result + that's a lot of LEDs to buy when I don't really need them. Plus, I've had at least 2 or 3 LEDs that didn't last as long as incandescents. Oh, one other thing. I don't think it matters to me in my application, but dimmable LEDs wink out at a certain point;They don't dim seemingly infinitly like incandescent. Out below 20% level according to the industry.

For those who might be interested, here is the Lutron chart regarding how much "electricity" is saved as incandescents are dimmed:
(apparently less efficient the more they are dimmed)

DIM SAVED

10% = 10%

25% = 20%

50% = 40%

75% = 60%
__________________________________________________

I've gone this far, I may as well comment on:

"I find they command too much attention when I just want to be adrift in music."

I get that.

This makes me think about the question of listening with eyes closed or not. I think the question has been asked on AA or somewhere that I read, but I'll say, if I may, that, although I don't do it quite 100% of the time, closing my eyes gives me a different sense of space (I guess that's the best way to put it) - immediatey. Strongest when the music was recorded/produced such that the soundfield extends laterally beyond the speakers, but noticeable if not. It's not a difference that is insignificant nor difficult for me to discern. I've always thought that, at least part of what is at work is that, first, nothing in my listening room 'looks' like what I'm listening to, what I'm hearing, and, because, secondly, my mind is processing/thinking about what my eyes are looking at on some level even though I'm not aware of that. Really, if asked what I was looking at I probably would eloquently respond with "huh?". I'm pretty sure that, even though the "word on the street" is (and I'm so 'street") that I might be from Mars, that anyone can hear this.

Apologies - I'm rambling. This is apparently a Stream of Conciousness Night. I wonder what time it is back on Mars...

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by JMAC

Wow, Dan. I could have stated most of that! My feelings exactly........

I've gone this far, I may as well comment on:

"I find they command too much attention when I just want to be adrift in music."

I get that.

This makes me think about the question of listening with eyes closed or not. I think the question has been asked on AA or somewhere that I read, but I'll say, if I may, that, although I don't do it quite 100% of the time, closing my eyes gives me a different sense of space (I guess that's the best way to put it) - immediatey. Strongest when the music was recorded/produced such that the soundfield extends laterally beyond the speakers, but noticeable if not. It's not a difference that is insignificant nor difficult for me to discern. I've always thought that, at least part of what is at work is that, first, nothing in my listening room 'looks' like what I'm listening to, what I'm hearing, and, because, secondly, my mind is processing/thinking about what my eyes are looking at on some level even though I'm not aware of that. Really, if asked what I was looking at I probably would eloquently respond with "huh?". I'm pretty sure that, even though the "word on the street" is (and I'm so 'street") that I might be from Mars, that anyone can hear this.

Apologies - I'm rambling. This is apparently a Stream of Conciousness Night. I wonder what time it is back on Mars...

John.......Interesting that you should mention a perception difference between what you are listening to with your eyes open or with your eyes closed. I have noticed something similar, especially when in the studio. It is a sealed room, ultra quiet with complete control of lighting and sound. I have noticed when I close my eyes and listen there is a different sense of space relationships. In other words, I block out the visual stimulation so that there is no mental distraction from sight. What happens in my mind's eye is a 3 dimensional fantasy that is developed from the auditory stream. I can usually maintain this state of mind for some time before one of two things happen, I either open my eyes or I fall asleep. What is unusual to my senses is when I open my eyes as the music continues to play I momentarily get the sensation of greater depth in the soundstage, not necessarily greater width, but most definitely a sense of greater depth. This seems to last for only 15 seconds or so before my visual acuity begins to capture my attention as I begin focusing on objects in the room. For those few seconds I see deeper into a performance before reality collapses my imagination. I don't know if any of this makes any sense but I experience it almost every time I listen with my eyes closed for a period of time, then open my eyes.

I am glad you triggered my thoughts on this phenomenon with your post because I have been meaning to comment about this sensation. I just hadn't gotten around to it before this evening.

[JMAC]

Wow Wow (double wow)
I just deleted a bunch of stuff because I realized that I could have described my experience exactly as you did, in part:
"What happens in my mind's eye is a 3 dimensional fantasy...I can usually maintain this state of mind for some time before one of two things happen, I either open my eyes or I fall asleep."

But, I think you might agree that it isn't literally a fantasy, but rather we are hearing what is actually there, just sans distraction. At least that's what I think. And when you say "...usually maintain this state of mind for some time... I can imagine that you always can because I can...unless I fall asleep. ..


But When I open my eyes, it's instantly over. Immediately starts and then immediately stops with open/close. This somehow makes me think that virtually anyone experiences this.

You have to be operating on a different plane than I. I envy you. I did some meditating ~40 years ago. I have been thinking lately about doing it again...might help ...

Oh, almost forgot. I think you're in Fl, so it must be after 1:00 am. I'll bet you are getting sleepy...sleeepy...

AND, if you're still awake, I made a little edit to my edit in the orig post and posted a couple of pics that are humongous If you can reduce them or delete them if necessary-great. In any case, I'll post something better tomorrow (well... actually later today in Florida)

[Yamaki]

John,

I, too, am a member of that heretic's club. Mine are usually off except on those occasions that I want to treat myself to the full McIntosh "Experience".

Don't feel too bad. You are in good company!

[crwilli]

No heresy at all. They provided us with an off/on switch for a reason. I tend to leave my meters on about 80% of the time.

On the observations of listening with your eyes closed, I struggled for months trying to dial my room in so my speakers disappeared and the stage was defined and clear. If my eyes are open that is impossible. If I dim the lights in the front of the room and or close my eyes, the speakers and the room disappear and I am left with a feeling of being in open space with only the band in front of me. It is awesome.

With my eyes open, my brain cannot suspend what it sees.