Best TT under 20k ?

[Tonepub]

I'm going to be in France in September, I'll stop by for a listen if you have time!

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I'm going to be in France in September, I'll stop by for a listen if you have time!

Jeff, that will be my pleasure !

[patrick]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

In France, the SME 20/3 with the V arm costs 9600 euros : much cheaper than in the US ! i would be left with around 6000 euros for a cart ! That should give many options....

Yes, the mark up in the US for SME tables is tough to swallow.

[Jerome W]

Avid Acutus Ref is out of the game because it costs in France 18600 euros without arm !!!

[Tonepub]

Understandable!

That's a big jump...

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by patrick

Yes, the mark up in the US for SME tables is tough to swallow.

Right because actually having a country big enough to require a distributor and dealers (2 levels) should cost the same as a country with factory to dealer (UK) or factory to distributor who acts as his only dealer (1 level).

I understand that you want it to be less expensive. Don't we all?

Nobody is asking you to like the pricing but at least understand what exactly you are bashing. Hopefully you do now.

Oh and welcome to AA.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Right because actually having a country big enough to require a distributor and dealers (2 levels) should cost the same as a country with factory to dealer (UK) or factory to distributor who acts as his only dealer (1 level).

I understand that you want it to be less expensive. Don't we all?

Nobody is asking you to like the pricing but at least understand what exactly you are bashing. Hopefully you do now.

Oh and welcome to AA.

Yes, in France, prices of SME tables are kept low because the importer is also the dealer.

Now, what would be interesting, is to compare the increase in price between different brands who also have an importer and dealers.
Is the increased price in the US, over the price in the country of origin, of the same magnitude for Clearaudio, SME, Avid, Linn for example ?

For example, Avid has in France one importer, and dealers, and the price is higher than in the US, who probably also has 1 importer and dealers !!
I thought we were closer to UK than the US !

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Yes, in France, prices of SME tables are kept low because the importer is also the dealer.

Now, what would be interesting, is to compare the increase in price between different brands who also have an importer and dealers.
Is the increased price in the US, over the price in the country of origin, of the same magnitude for Clearaudio, SME, Avid, Linn for example ?

For example, Avid has in France one importer, and dealers, and the price is higher than in the US, who probably also has 1 importer and dealers !!
I thought we were closer to UK than the US !

Not so much. In order to compare, you would need to know factory pricing policies of the manufacturers in question.

Pricing is determined by the factory cost. Some manufacturers have a different domestic dealer and export price. Some do not. In some cases the difference is minimal, in others it supports a distributor with a dealer network. Still others may have a sliding scale to their distributors based on volume.

As with Patrick's comment above, unless you know the individual factories' pricing methodology, you're making assumptions that likely have little basis in fact.

[patrick]

Not so fast. I am not making the assumptions you assume I am making (can I say that? I do understand well the structure you outline, I also realize the US is a long way from the UK and gear has to ship far and be warrantied internally to the end market. I wonder however, why the distributor of SME makes such a mark up on this line when it's not uniform across other imported audio products.

But thanks for the welcome, I think I know exactly what you meant by it.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by patrick

Not so fast. I am not making the assumptions you assume I am making (can I say that? I do understand well the structure you outline, I also realize the US is a long way from the UK and gear has to ship far and be warrantied internally to the end market. I wonder however, why the distributor of SME makes such a mark up on this line when it's not uniform across other imported audio products.

But thanks for the welcome, I think I know exactly what you mean by it.

Patrick,

Very good point. This is also what I tried to express but my english is not as good as yours.
Bill ( Metaphacts) answered my question without seeming to understand that factory cost and policies towards importers are not in the equation here. Factory cost is the same for the local market and for the abroad market.
The welcome was a bit " fresh " because you're talking to someone from Sumiko, the US importer of SME. So Bill defends his position. But you probably knew that already !

Bill,
I understand clearly the usefulness of importers and the fact that their work has to be paid, as for dealers.
But I can easily understand Patrick's point.
We have the same problem here in France with McIntosh. Hence, a lot of people buy McIntosh outside France ! In Belgium and Italy ! ( when it's not elsewhere I can't mention here ! ). I have had 8 different McIntosh pieces over time and no one was bought in France !
Are the importation costs differences justified between european countries in regard to the same brand ?
No.
The truth is that importers and dealers have the right to establish their prices freely in their country and when they do that, they ask themselves " does my customer have a real choice to buy elsewhere than from my circuit ?" If the answer is "yes but it will be very tough for him", then the price can go up easily ! Sometimes, but it's not often, the answer is "No, but I don't care " like for the french McIntosh importer !
Let me give you an other example. A few years ago I bought my center channel speaker CB6i. I called my dealer : the list price was 3600 euros. He could make me a discount at 3200 euros. I called a dealer in UK. He could send me the speaker at 1800 euros, shipping included ! I finally got it from my dealer at 1700 euros ! Less than 50 % of the list price !! too bad I did not know that when I bought my big speakers !
Concurrence and the ability or not to buy elsewhere, is ultimately the unique factor towards the ending price in different countries. IMHO. All the rest are diplomatic speeches : air.
As an american audiophile won't go to Mexico to buy a pair of speakers ( as we can go to Belgium or Italy....) or a TT, the following is just a logical suite.....