Vinyl Newbie In Need Of Enlightenment... Is this it?

[esteban]

Hope you guys can shed some light into this issue I'm having before I jump to any misguided conclusions...

I had been wanting to get back into vinyl for a long while, but due to my almost complete ignorance when it comes to proper cartridge and arm set-up (not to mention the fact that I did not have an LP collection to begin with), I always ended up surrendering to my hesitation and sense of caution. However, I had heard many analog demos that blew me away with their musicality, warmth and complete lack of digital "glare". To my surprise, all of these demos also banished the biggest fear and concern I had about the format: background noise and the dreaded "pops & clicks" gallore, which in all cases was barely even noticeable and not distracting at all. In the very few instances it intruded during playback, it actually added a little extra "something" to the experience which was definitely not detrimental at all. The current revival of the format was the icing in the cake.

I finally decided to bite the bullet and see what the whole fuzz was about. And last night I became the proud owner of my very first turntable, a Pro-Ject RM 5.1 with a Sumiko Blue Point II MC cartridge and a Phono Box preamp. Beautiful, simple, not too cheap, not too expensive. I figured I would ignore the sub-$300 models (of which there are plenty) and give the format a fair chance to impress me at home by going a couple of steps further up the line. I even visited the two last surviving stores in the area that still proudly carry vinyl and, anticipation running rampant in my mind and soul, bought about 20 or so brand new titles, from Coltrane's "Love Supreme" to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side...", to Chet Baker, to the latest Yes to Ennio Morricone.

In other words, I was ready.

Of course I wasn't expecting the level of quality I heard at those demos (after all, those tables were about 5 to 10 times the price of the Pro-Ject), but I figured this would get me close.

Everything is connected to my Prima Luna amp and Sonus Faber Toy Towers and my dealer took care of the set-up and installation and spend more than ample time making sure everything was where it needed to be. No problems there.

I will not jump to any conclusions and reserve final judgment for later on. After all, the cartridge needs to break-in, a few hours worth of listening are not enough to properly assess a new format, and my stress levels have been all over the place lately. However, I was surprised... no, make that SHOCKED at how just plain noisy and sometimes even distorted all the albums I bought sounded. I tried every single one of them. And I repeat: they were all brand new, unopened and most of them of recent pressing, like the latest Yes album or some recent jazz releases, except one used but original pressing of Iron Maiden's "Powerslave" which my wife gave me as a Christmas present last year.

I am aware of the fact that records benefit significantly from proper washing and care, but I am not willing to go that route and expense if not even something like a brand spankin' new copy of "Dark Side Of The Moon", which needs no further comments in audiophiles circles, does not blow me away but, in fact, leaves me more than a little disappointed. I even compared the sound of Yes' "Fly From Here" and Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" to their CD equivalents via my Oppo 95, and it was not even close: the Oppo was the clear winner, in EVERY possible area, including its "analog-like sound".

Every other record I played sounded as if it had gone through a million plays before it ended up on my table, with cracks, pops, bumps, and other sounds that I can't even begin to describe, plus some intermittent distortion that is very difficult to explain (static?) ruining what was otherwise a nice enough presentation, warm, smooth, with great imaging and pace, but that was it: "nice", and not "oh-my-God-how-did-I-ever-live-without-this" type of experience... Maybe I was expecting too much out of a $1K table and a $200 preamp? To me, in this day and age, that should get me at least CLOSE to the format's strengths.

What am I doing wrong? Are most record pressings this noisy, or is there perhaps a problem with my cartridge and/or my set-up and/or my preamp? Again, I do not mind the occasional pop, but if what I played last night is any indication, I am not willing to spend $30+ on something I can get on CD and/or hi-res digital for much cheaper and that will sound much, much better through the Oppo, and with no magic acts on my part when it comes to set-up and maintenance.

Having said all of that, I REALLY want to love this thing. Really. So please share your theories as to what might be wrong here and what I can possibly do to improve the sound, without having to spend close to another $1K for a dustcover (you would think that would come standard with a $1k table!) and cleaning machine... I will share further observations and comments shortly...

[Cucumber_Jones]

I do not have a TT yet. However, this to me sounds like a set up issue. Something is off. You bought this on agon right? I think I saw it listed - it looked great. What did the seller say to you about it?

This also sounds like when you first got your tube amp. Don't worry you will sort it out.

[Removed]

If you have the phono box II make sure your running from the MM section as your cartridge is a hi output MC 2.5Mv and if you run it from the MC section then you will be over driving the cartridge with the additional gain the MC section provides......if you have the Phono box I then no need to worry as it only has MM......the next obvious would be set up......

[bumboola]

Is it possible the VTF got thrown off on the way from the dealer to your house? It really sounds like it may be set too low, should be set 1.85g - 1.9g and no more or it will supress the top end. Also, what notch is the anti-skate thread set on?

The Blue Point #2 is a very decent cartridge but somewhat unforgiving when it comes to surface noise. Most new records should be dead quiet though, except for maybe the "Dark Side of the Moon" 30th anniversary record that has some surface noise with just about any cartridge. The BP2 is a surprisingly superb tracker and you should not be hearing any distortion with it, even at the inner grooves. It does need a good 20 hours before it starts to break in.

Something is wrong with the set-up here, if you can give us some more info we will get this figured out for you.

BTW, JMK Displays will build you a custom dust cover with your preferred dimensions and cutouts for about $150 shipped. You do not need to spend 1K. They do good work and have built a couple of covers for me. I have no affiliation with them, just a happy customer.

[joe1515]

You really should clean all of the records first before you play them. You will be amazed at how dirty they come from the pressing plants. From my experience cleaning the lp's makes a huge difference.

I would definitely look into what Jeff suggested first, too much is likely causing the distortion.

Joe

[howiebrou]

Something is definitely wrong. What you describe should not be happening.

Did the dealer not try it out in your presence before he left? Surely he would have been horrified by what you describe?

howie

[esteban]

Thanks for the feedback, folks.

My two main problems right now are very high levels of surface noise and frequent pops, in EVERY SINGLE album, plus a slight distortion levels in what I would describe as the "outer edges" of the stereo image. In other words, the sounds coming from both the extreme left and right portions of the stereo mix. The center image sounds fine. One Morricone album (180 gms, just opened) sounded particularly nasty, with a rhythmic "static-like" noise that would just not go away.

I'm thinking the problem might be in the arm and/or cartridge, and on top of that I might be experiencing some issues with static as well.

The table was purchased brand-new from my local dealer, with whom I had nothing but great experiences, and not Audiogon. The noise was slightly present the second we started playing, but it was attributed to the nature of the beast. I am aware that even brand new records benefit from proper washing and cleaning, and I did use a pro-Ject brush (also just purchased) before playing each one of them, but it did not seem to help one bit. The problem got significantly worse afterwards, once I was by myself. I was up until 4AM listening to every single one of the albums. I discussed this with my dealer and he will be back this week so that we can get to the bottom of it.

In any case, I am a little disappointed at how dirty and fuzzy brand new records can be, specially considering their price, and how many additional tools one seems to require in order to get things properly going... In many ways, I can see why so many audiophiles love the hands-on, almost artisan-like approach of the format, but on the other hand I can definitely understand why so many are turned-off by the sheer complexity and arduous finickiness of it all... Hopefully I'll come out of this as a member of the first group.

[esteban]

Originally Posted by A/V Solutions

If you have the phono box II make sure your running from the MM section as your cartridge is a hi output MC 2.5Mv and if you run it from the MC section then you will be over driving the cartridge with the additional gain the MC section provides......if you have the Phono box I then no need to worry as it only has MM......the next obvious would be set up......

Yes, I checked that before playing the first album. The Phono Box II actually offers both MC and MM loads, and the Sumiko BPII is MC. I do not believe the problem lies there, but I am using the MC setting. Is this not correct?

[chessman]

Buy two cats and a leather-elbow patched sweater and call me in the morning ....

Sorry, couldn't resist. As said above, something is wrong. Your TT experience is exactly what holds me off. Back in the day we just dropped a needle and listened. But now, it seems like one has to take religious orders to have the discipline to deal with all the finicky stuff.

Of course, you should wash even the new albums, but I really suspect a voltage mismatch between cartridge and amp. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

Sorry about the joke.

[esteban]

Originally Posted by bumboola

Also, what notch is the anti-skate thread set on?

It's on the center one, as per the manual's instructions.

Originally Posted by bumboola

Most new records should be dead quiet though, except for maybe the "Dark Side of the Moon" 30th anniversary record that has some surface noise with just about any cartridge.

Yes, that is the one I bought: the 30th Anniversary version.