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  #11  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:31 AM
MCenthusiast MCenthusiast is offline
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Originally Posted by Msegal View Post
I am afraid it was theMP1100 and not the MP100.

If you check out Michael Fremers review of the MP100 on "his website " you can clearly see the solid state board and compare it to any of the tubed twin box McIntosh preamps to see the difference.

I too question the wisdom of the MP1100. I would not be surprised to see it residing right in the middle of a stack of C1100 and D1100.
A tube versus solid state signal path is one difference between the various MC phono stages and dual mono is another that the MP1100 shares in common with the C1100.

I've also been curious about the differences between the C1100 internal phono stage and the MP1100 since McIntosh seems to be primarily targeting owners of the C1100 and it appears to simply be a more feature rich offering of the same design. Unfortunately, one that still lacks the ability to adjust gain as I would like for low output mc cartridges.

It's worth mentioning that sister company ARC does not not include a phono stage in their high end line stage offerings like the REF5 SE and instead requires customers to buy a separate phono stage. That appears to be where McIntosh is headed as well with the availability of separate line, digital and phono stages. Look forward to reading reviews of this and the D1100 but a four box pre amp set up will be overkill for most of us. I'm still enjoying the sound (and value) of the C1100's built in phono stage
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:24 PM
MCenthusiast MCenthusiast is offline
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Using the McIntosh website compare feature, I'm reminded that the MP1100 offers a modest increase of up to 64dB of gain versus 60dB with the C1100 (the ability to select lower gain may also be useful for higher output mc carts). The phono THD spec improves from .05 to .02 as well.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCenthusiast View Post
A tube versus solid state signal path is one difference between the various MC phono stages and dual mono is another that the MP1100 shares in common with the C1100.



I've also been curious about the differences between the C1100 internal phono stage and the MP1100 since McIntosh seems to be primarily targeting owners of the C1100 and it appears to simply be a more feature rich offering of the same design. Unfortunately, one that still lacks the ability to adjust gain as I would like for low output mc cartridges.



It's worth mentioning that sister company ARC does not not include a phono stage in their high end line stage offerings like the REF5 SE and instead requires customers to buy a separate phono stage. That appears to be where McIntosh is headed as well with the availability of separate line, digital and phono stages. Look forward to reading reviews of this and the D1100 but a four box pre amp set up will be overkill for most of us. I'm still enjoying the sound (and value) of the C1100's built in phono stage


Actually, the MP1100 does allow you to adjust gain, as stated in the manual including 40, 46, 52, 58, and 64dB.
__________________

Preamp: McIntosh C1100T/C1100C, McIntosh MX180
Amp: McIntosh MC611 (2), MC601 (3), MI254
Digital: McIntosh D1100, McIntosh MCT450, Meridian 808v6, Aurender N20, Aurender ACS10, Oppo 203
Analog: McIntosh MT10, Hana Umami Red
Phono preamp: Simaudio Moon 610LP, 820S
Signal cables: WW Gold Eclipse 7 speaker cables; Shunyata Sigma v2 XLR (2); Sigma v1 XLR (2), Transparent Ref XL (MM2) XLR; WW Silver Eclipse 7 (4)
Digital cables: Shunyata Omega USB, Omega Ethernet, Sigma Ethernet; WW Platinum 7 Coax, AES/EBU
Switch: Innuos PhoenixNet
Power: Audioquest Niagara 7000, Audioquest 5000, Audioquest Dragon, Hurricane PC, Shunyata Alpha HC, AQ NRG Edison outlets, (8) 20 amp dedicated lines, 125 amp subpanel
Speakers: Wilson Sasha DAW, Dynaudio Contour 30, Dynaudio Contour 25C
Subs: REL s/812 (6), REL s/510 (3)
Accessories: HRS M3X2 shelf (MT10), Stillpoints Ultra II v2 w/ bases (21), Ultra SS (12), Mini (12), LPi v1
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2017, 02:12 PM
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@MCenthusiast .... our posts crossed over and I missed your follow up.
__________________

Preamp: McIntosh C1100T/C1100C, McIntosh MX180
Amp: McIntosh MC611 (2), MC601 (3), MI254
Digital: McIntosh D1100, McIntosh MCT450, Meridian 808v6, Aurender N20, Aurender ACS10, Oppo 203
Analog: McIntosh MT10, Hana Umami Red
Phono preamp: Simaudio Moon 610LP, 820S
Signal cables: WW Gold Eclipse 7 speaker cables; Shunyata Sigma v2 XLR (2); Sigma v1 XLR (2), Transparent Ref XL (MM2) XLR; WW Silver Eclipse 7 (4)
Digital cables: Shunyata Omega USB, Omega Ethernet, Sigma Ethernet; WW Platinum 7 Coax, AES/EBU
Switch: Innuos PhoenixNet
Power: Audioquest Niagara 7000, Audioquest 5000, Audioquest Dragon, Hurricane PC, Shunyata Alpha HC, AQ NRG Edison outlets, (8) 20 amp dedicated lines, 125 amp subpanel
Speakers: Wilson Sasha DAW, Dynaudio Contour 30, Dynaudio Contour 25C
Subs: REL s/812 (6), REL s/510 (3)
Accessories: HRS M3X2 shelf (MT10), Stillpoints Ultra II v2 w/ bases (21), Ultra SS (12), Mini (12), LPi v1
Sound treaments: Artnovion
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2017, 02:36 PM
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ToneAudio has a MP1100 in for review, should be available in a few months .... they reviewed the C1100 last summer including phono capabilities, hopefully there will be a comparison comment even if it's only by memory.

I tend to believe the comment that was relayed 2nd hand by a dealer from Mr Hinton.

A local McIntosh dealer, who is deep into vinyl, told me he believed the MP1100 is same SQ as C1100 with a bunch of new bells and whistles.
__________________

Preamp: McIntosh C1100T/C1100C, McIntosh MX180
Amp: McIntosh MC611 (2), MC601 (3), MI254
Digital: McIntosh D1100, McIntosh MCT450, Meridian 808v6, Aurender N20, Aurender ACS10, Oppo 203
Analog: McIntosh MT10, Hana Umami Red
Phono preamp: Simaudio Moon 610LP, 820S
Signal cables: WW Gold Eclipse 7 speaker cables; Shunyata Sigma v2 XLR (2); Sigma v1 XLR (2), Transparent Ref XL (MM2) XLR; WW Silver Eclipse 7 (4)
Digital cables: Shunyata Omega USB, Omega Ethernet, Sigma Ethernet; WW Platinum 7 Coax, AES/EBU
Switch: Innuos PhoenixNet
Power: Audioquest Niagara 7000, Audioquest 5000, Audioquest Dragon, Hurricane PC, Shunyata Alpha HC, AQ NRG Edison outlets, (8) 20 amp dedicated lines, 125 amp subpanel
Speakers: Wilson Sasha DAW, Dynaudio Contour 30, Dynaudio Contour 25C
Subs: REL s/812 (6), REL s/510 (3)
Accessories: HRS M3X2 shelf (MT10), Stillpoints Ultra II v2 w/ bases (21), Ultra SS (12), Mini (12), LPi v1
Sound treaments: Artnovion
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2017, 04:11 PM
Msegal Msegal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCenthusiast View Post
A tube versus solid state signal path is one difference between the various MC phono stages and dual mono is another that the MP1100 shares in common with the C1100.



I've also been curious about the differences between the C1100 internal phono stage and the MP1100 since McIntosh seems to be primarily targeting owners of the C1100 and it appears to simply be a more feature rich offering of the same design. Unfortunately, one that still lacks the ability to adjust gain as I would like for low output mc cartridges.



It's worth mentioning that sister company ARC does not not include a phono stage in their high end line stage offerings like the REF5 SE and instead requires customers to buy a separate phono stage. That appears to be where McIntosh is headed as well with the availability of separate line, digital and phono stages. Look forward to reading reviews of this and the D1100 but a four box pre amp set up will be overkill for most of us. I'm still enjoying the sound (and value) of the C1100's built in phono stage


With Aesthetix having a 3 box IO and AR requiring 4 boxes for their special edition phono and preamp it seems the growth of boxes is unstoppable.
I guess since people are not using crazy equalizer sand other audio bling the separation of components of a piece of equipment is in order.

Perhaps we can look forward to separate input box, output box, line stage, phono stage, power supply and transformer.

We could mix and match each aspect of a component to our own sensibilities. [emoji4]

I will predict the McIntosh C2000!
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2017, 08:51 PM
rjryan rjryan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msegal View Post
With Aesthetix having a 3 box IO and AR requiring 4 boxes for their special edition phono and preamp it seems the growth of boxes is unstoppable.
I guess since people are not using crazy equalizer sand other audio bling the separation of components of a piece of equipment is in order.

Perhaps we can look forward to separate input box, output box, line stage, phono stage, power supply and transformer.

We could mix and match each aspect of a component to our own sensibilities. [emoji4]

I will predict the McIntosh C2000!
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:58 PM
MisterBritt MisterBritt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCenthusiast View Post
Using the McIntosh website compare feature, I'm reminded that the MP1100 offers a modest increase of up to 64dB of gain versus 60dB with the C1100 (the ability to select lower gain may also be useful for higher output mc carts). The phono THD spec improves from .05 to .02 as well.
Your post got me to thinking. If the selectable gain of the MP1100 represents a modest increase from 60 db to 64 db, and the THD spec is improved from .05 to .02, could it be an identical phono circuit? I was curious. I spoke with my McIntosh dealer today I asked him about it. He said the designer of the new phono circuit is Ron Evans and getting it right was one of Ron's last (latest) challenges at McIntosh. (It made me wonder if Ron had retired but I didn't ask.)

It was Ron Evans and Sidney Corderman, I was informed, who designed the miraculous PowerGuard. Ron, whose name was not immediately familiar to me the way for instance Sidney Corderman, Chuck Hinton, Gordon Gow, Frank McIntosh and Ron Cornelious are, but he too is one of the pillars of McIntosh.

Also, by way of confession, I had read an announcement published in Europe which quoted the price in pounds or euros and I did the calculation back to USD and it was about $12,000. I imagine that's true overseas. But I wasn't thinking that the product might be priced higher overseas than here for a variety of reasons: import fees, tariffs, taxes -- whatever. Bottom line, I was informed the MP1100 retails for $8,000 USD for those of us here in the states.

At any rate, my dealer had visited with Ron Evans about this very product earlier in the week. I was informed that the phono circuit in the MP1100 is not identical to McIntosh's other offerings. It is new and improved. I'm not an engineer. I don't know. But I am relaying that I asked specifically about this matter, we talked for quite some time, and was informed that it is a better phono circuit than McIntosh's other offerings.

I have a question for the technically-oriented folks on this thread. Would 64 db gain be sufficient to mate with an Ortofon SPU Royal GM/A? Here are the specs on this cartridge:

Output Voltage at 1000 Hz , 5cm/sec. 200 uv (0,2 mv) .... this is very, very low output cartridge
Internal Impedance, DC resistance 6 ohm
Recommended load impedance > 100 ohm

I ask because if all this is good, and I could replace my SUT, then the proposition of mating the improved phono section, the MP1100, to my eight-years-old 60th Anniversary C22 preamp is intriguing.

Last edited by MisterBritt; 04-07-2017 at 11:17 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-08-2017, 10:41 AM
MCenthusiast MCenthusiast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBritt View Post
Your post got me to thinking. If the selectable gain of the MP1100 represents a modest increase from 60 db to 64 db, and the THD spec is improved from .05 to .02, could it be an identical phono circuit? I was curious. I spoke with my McIntosh dealer today I asked him about it. He said the designer of the new phono circuit is Ron Evans and getting it right was one of Ron's last (latest) challenges at McIntosh. (It made me wonder if Ron had retired but I didn't ask.)

It was Ron Evans and Sidney Corderman, I was informed, who designed the miraculous PowerGuard. Ron, whose name was not immediately familiar to me the way for instance Sidney Corderman, Chuck Hinton, Gordon Gow, Frank McIntosh and Ron Cornelious are, but he too is one of the pillars of McIntosh.

Also, by way of confession, I had read an announcement published in Europe which quoted the price in pounds or euros and I did the calculation back to USD and it was about $12,000. I imagine that's true overseas. But I wasn't thinking that the product might be priced higher overseas than here for a variety of reasons: import fees, tariffs, taxes -- whatever. Bottom line, I was informed the MP1100 retails for $8,000 USD for those of us here in the states.

At any rate, my dealer had visited with Ron Evans about this very product earlier in the week. I was informed that the phono circuit in the MP1100 is not identical to McIntosh's other offerings. It is new and improved. I'm not an engineer. I don't know. But I am relaying that I asked specifically about this matter, we talked for quite some time, and was informed that it is a better phono circuit than McIntosh's other offerings.

I have a question for the technically-oriented folks on this thread. Would 64 db gain be sufficient to mate with an Ortofon SPU Royal GM/A? Here are the specs on this cartridge:

Output Voltage at 1000 Hz , 5cm/sec. 200 uv (0,2 mv) .... this is very, very low output cartridge
Internal Impedance, DC resistance 6 ohm
Recommended load impedance > 100 ohm

I ask because if all this is good, and I could replace my SUT, then the proposition of mating the improved phono section, the MP1100, to my eight-years-old 60th Anniversary C22 preamp is intriguing.
Our systems are quite similar. I'm now using a pair of contemporary MC75's with Canterbury SE's as well. I alternate between Kleos, EMT and Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridges. The Koetsu is.3mv and might benefit from the additional gain of a step up. Your cartridge is lower output still. I don't think the 4 db increase of the MP1100 would be enough to drive your SPU optimally and Auditorium23 makes excellent step ups. I use one with a Garard and EMT JSD6 in my vintage system.

I agree that while the Mc phono stages may well be of similar design, there are too many differences between them: specs, tube versus solid state and dual mono versus stereo to credibly state that they are the same. The MP1100 appears to be the most refined of all.

Since you have dual mono amps, a move to a dual mono pre-amp like the C1100 might be a compelling path for you to entertain. I think you'd see more significant gains across the board. Look forward to hearing what you decide to do.
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  #20  
Old 04-08-2017, 02:02 PM
MisterBritt MisterBritt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCenthusiast View Post
Our systems are quite similar. I'm now using a pair of contemporary MC75's with Canterbury SE's as well. I alternate between Kleos, EMT and Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridges. The Koetsu is.3mv and might benefit from the additional gain of a step up. Your cartridge is lower output still. I don't think the 4 db increase of the MP1100 would be enough to drive your SPU optimally and Auditorium23 makes excellent step ups. I use one with a Garard and EMT JSD6 in my vintage system.

I agree that while the Mc phono stages may well be of similar design, there are too many differences between them: specs, tube versus solid state and dual mono versus stereo to credibly state that they are the same. The MP1100 appears to be the most refined of all.

Since you have dual mono amps, a move to a dual mono pre-amp like the C1100 might be a compelling path for you to entertain. I think you'd see more significant gains across the board. Look forward to hearing what you decide to do.
I noticed the similarities in systems. You have good taste. Ha!

I was afraid the extra 4 db might not be sufficient to replace the SUT. As you well know, the A23s are among the best out there but I was hoping to streamline a bit.
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