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Audio Research State of the Art Audio Reproduction

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  #21  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:29 PM
Still-One Still-One is offline
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Originally Posted by two dot View Post
Jim,

No, I did not mean to insinuate that larger companies cannot make great gear... they certainly do...

And, I think that ARC is at the top of the heap along with Wilson, McIntosh, Ayre, and many others...

Just that Serge has shown a fondness for the LAMM products and that they are indeed very special amplifiers made by a small company.
Okay, I understand.
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  #22  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:46 PM
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The ARC+SF room at CES was solid; however the salespeople and "managers" were worthless and arrogant. In other words, the experience tainted my view of both brands to the point where I would probably never consider them personally or for a recommendation.

If you loved LAMM so much, stick with it - plus it sounds like they treated you very well. Not to mention the simple elegance of how LAMM's look vs. Accuphase/ARC is a huge plus on the aesthetics side.
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Cyril, there is no way I can give up a CDP. I suggest you obtain some XRCDs and give them a listen through a CDP and then the ripped version.... There is a difference as some of that analog magic recorded on the XRCD is lost and replaced with a digital edge... Not nearly as noticeable with rebook CDs. Also, how can one give up a tube CDP? I am sure I will be more than happy with the ripped and streamed music for all else but I have to have a CDP for XRCDs.

You bring up a good point with the amps... The Ref 110 may be enough to drive the Sophia 3 with authority since my room is 13x21x10 and the type of music I will be listening to mostly in this room. Of course once the Ref 110 has to be sold or upgraded, the loss will be that much less.

I should probably get the Ref 40 and be done with it to enjoy it for many years to come without the itch to upgrade.
Serge...you are preaching to the choir in terms of giving up on a tubed-CDP I guess I was just thinking for future proofing, if I were in the market for a CDP now, I would at least want it to have digital inputs so that you could also use a PC or music server as a source.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2010, 02:58 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Serge.......I have admired Audio Research for a long time. Even as a serious McIntosh fan, I have lusted after more than one ARC component through the years, particularly their preamplifiers and tube amplifiers.

Providing there are no budget constraints on the two channel system, my suggestion is to fully immerse yourself in the very best ARC has to offer. My suggestions are as follows:

> Reference Anniversary Edition Preamplifier
> Reference Phono 2
> Reference CD8
> Dac 8
> Reference 210 Power amplifier (unless only the Reference 610 will do)

As for cosmetics, the black faces are attractive, but I believe the ARC components really strut their stuff in natural brushed finish. As a complete system of ARC components, the natural finish makes a powerful visual impression, and a striking statement of audio authority.

Oh, scrap the Sopia 3 idea, and return to the beloved Sasha.
Dan, if I am going tubes, the Sophia 3 is actually an easier load. The question is, will ARC 110s or 210s mind the lower/more demanding impedance dip of the Sasha or can they overcome it? My guess is that the Sophia 3 is more suitable for any tube amp out there... The Sophia 3 is not exactly Sasha but it is actually not chopped liver either and in really is not that far off in performance.

So far, the most noticeable difference between the Sophia 3 and Sasha has been mostly in bass response. Sasha did exhibit more of dynamic contrast, authority and slam but then again this is a different room and I am not running the same gear I used to so it is really hard to say. Other smaller/less noticeable difference is the focus and image density, again, could very well be gear related... Other than that, Sophia 3 reminds me of Sasha a lot! Very musical and engaging with a slightly darker tonal balance through the mids probably due to the small dip they designed into it. I like that a lot. Not at all lean, harsh or thin sounding. Detailed? Yes but not in the conventional sense of the word where people may think it is overly analytical, far from it actually.

If there is an itch to come back to Sasha once I have some decent gear driving the Sophia 3s and I notice a bigger difference, I can always transition the theater to all Wilson when they update the center channel to match Sophia 3 and Sasha and move the Sophia 3s into the theater instead.

As far as fully immersing into ARC, as always, I am trying to make a rational decision and balance budget vs return on the dollar performance.

Last edited by PHC1; 10-05-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Still-One View Post
Serge
The Sophia's are excellent speakers but you do not have to throw that kind of coin at them to get 98% of what they offer.

Too bad you are not going out to RMAF in 10 days. At least you might hear some other gear that interests you.

Jim
Jim, while the Sophia 2 and 3 are very often displayed with lesser gear to prove that you don't have to break the bank to have great sound, I even auditioned the Sophia 3 with the lower end Ayre gear and really enjoyed it as well as made the decision to own a pair, I also know they deserve and can support gear of much higher level. The Sasha reacted much more to different gear than virtually any of the speakers I've owned before... I believe that Sophia 3 will also reveal quite a broad range of differences in upstream components. Both have chameleon like qualities. I've heard a big difference just by swapping in a pair of Transparent RCAs with Sasha and Sophia 3 this morning. Just like that the sound changed... wasn't always this kind of a dramatic difference with all of my other speakers before.

Besides, there is more to this than just having gear "good enough" to drive them. I don't have to tell you all the other aspects of pride and satisfaction of ownership and how much that last 2% of performance costs us.

Last edited by PHC1; 10-05-2010 at 03:20 PM.
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by two dot View Post
With total respect... As GREAT as the ARC gear is I cannot see that it won't be a step backward from the LAMM gear that you owned previously.
I've said it before, it will be a tough combo to beat for sure... We'll see.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Vesuvius View Post
The ARC+SF room at CES was solid; however the salespeople and "managers" were worthless and arrogant. In other words, the experience tainted my view of both brands to the point where I would probably never consider them personally or for a recommendation.

If you loved LAMM so much, stick with it - plus it sounds like they treated you very well. Not to mention the simple elegance of how LAMM's look vs. Accuphase/ARC is a huge plus on the aesthetics side.
Emile...are you sure those were ARC and SF representatives or was it the salespeople of a local dealer that carried both those lines and they just happened to be showing that combination of equipment? I don't know about Sonus Faber but everything I have heard about the ARC people is that they are extremely down to earth and friendly and customer-focused. Anyone can call up at any time to go visit their factory/offices and if Dave Gordon (President) is around he will personally accompany the visitors on the tour, etc...But your experience is an important case study for any company in that every interaction has the potential of permanently alienating a customer from a brand/company if that interaction is not a positive one.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:17 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vesuvius View Post
The ARC+SF room at CES was solid; however the salespeople and "managers" were worthless and arrogant. In other words, the experience tainted my view of both brands to the point where I would probably never consider them personally or for a recommendation.

If you loved LAMM so much, stick with it - plus it sounds like they treated you very well. Not to mention the simple elegance of how LAMM's look vs. Accuphase/ARC is a huge plus on the aesthetics side.
The perceived arrogance of some sales guys has very little bearing on what the gear sounds like in my own room. Now, if this kind of attitude encompasses the company as a whole and affects their customer service, that would be a turn off for sure. I have not dealt with ARC in many years so I just don't know.

Lamm is a small company indeed. Most of the time if I had a question or needed something from them, I got to speak to Vladimir or his wife directly. They have always responded to my technical questions both through email and on the phone and were both very helpful and courteous.
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Serge...you are preaching to the choir in terms of giving up on a tubed-CDP I guess I was just thinking for future proofing, if I were in the market for a CDP now, I would at least want it to have digital inputs so that you could also use a PC or music server as a source.
Tube CD8 and DAC8 should have my needs covered from both ends of the digital equation. The Reference 2 phono should take care of my analog needs very elegantly.
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  #30  
Old 10-05-2010, 03:44 PM
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Paul Bolin and Marc Mickelson's take on the ARC 40th anniversary preamp. The Audio Beat - Casual Revelations: Audio Research's Reference Anniversary Preamplifier; Audio Research Reference Anniversary Preamp
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