20A power cord for Ref 5?

[Dafos]

Dave, just curious, since you are using Lamm amps, have you actually compared the ref 5 to your former Lamm preamplifier. I would think that there would be better synergy when using components from the same manufacturer.

[daveneumann]

Originally Posted by Dafos

Dave, just curious, since you are using Lamm amps, have you actually compared the ref 5 to your former Lamm preamplifier. I would think that there would be better synergy when using components from the same manufacturer.

No I have not compared them directly. The Lamm preamp was good, but after much listening and comparing to the Musical Fidelity kW, I came to realize that the Lamm was obscuring some of the fine musical details as well as softening attack and dynamics. It did have a nice tube bloom and dimensionality. And there is no remote with any Lamm preamp, which was a bit of a downside from time to time.

The MF kW is much better with dynamics, detail, propulsiveness and attack, without loosing too much of the tube bloom. On the downside, the MF presents a rather flat 2 dimensional soundstage and is not as warm sounding as the Lamm.

My hope is that the Ref 5 will give me everything I am looking for.

[Dafos]

Dave, if your MF kw preamplifier was the limited edition model of some 5 or 6 years back, I've actually heard a direct comparison between the kw pre and the ref 5's predescessor, the ref 3, and I'm telling you the gap was so huge in favor of the ARC. More bloom, more body, wider and deeper stage, you name it the ARC flattened the kw. Which is why I asked you about the Lamm which is a brand Ive heard on several occasions and been likewise impressed by though ive never heard one in direct comparison with any ARC ref models. And yes, I agree that the Lamms lack of remote would for me be a key deciding factor assuming both the Lamm and the ARC were sonically even.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Dave; Congratulations on the Ref5... It will change a lot in the first 200-300 hours. I've found 600 hours is accurate for full break-in. Enjoy!

[Puma Cat]

I recommend a Shunyata CX series 20 amp power cord: Black Mamba, Python or higher.

[daveneumann]

Originally Posted by Dafos

Dave, if your MF kw preamplifier was the limited edition model of some 5 or 6 years back, I've actually heard a direct comparison between the kw pre and the ref 5's predescessor, the ref 3, and I'm telling you the gap was so huge in favor of the ARC. More bloom, more body, wider and deeper stage, you name it the ARC flattened the kw. Which is why I asked you about the Lamm which is a brand Ive heard on several occasions and been likewise impressed by though ive never heard one in direct comparison with any ARC ref models. And yes, I agree that the Lamms lack of remote would for me be a key deciding factor assuming both the Lamm and the ARC were sonically even.

Dafos, yep that's my current MF preamp. You've really got me anxious now to hear the Ref 5 (once broken in) with your comparison experience with the Ref 3.

Thanks also Viper and Puma Cat, I appreciate the experience and advice. I'm looking for a Shunyata or Cardas GR power cord.

Best,

Dave

[Dafos]

Dave, I may be biased being a long time ARC user, but the ref 3 subject of that comparison was dropped into an all musical fidelity kw system and after the audition, it never left that owners system! He then completed the revamp of his system by replacing the mighty Kw amp for the ref 610, but admittedly, I felt that the gap between the power amps was not as dramatic. What I may recommend though, if still possible, is to wait for the rumored release of a mk2 version of the ref 5 that will likely incorporate design attributes and parts, specifically the white Teflon caps, from the reference anniversary preamp.

[Ritmo]

Agree with Stephen (Puma Cat). I have ARC with Shunyata and I'm extremely happy with the combo.

Mike

[jpgr4blu]

Hi Dave:
I see you use Cardas Golden Reference in your system which are very good ICs. But having used them in an all ARC system with Wilsons, I can say that they slightly smooth and round out the sound in a pleasing way. I find that any number of more neutral/transparent cables are better suited to the ARC sound which I find to be very neutral with precise transients (esp for tubes). I like Shunyata (almost all) and Stealth (Indra or Sakra only ) the most ---both let the strengths of ARC gear flow through to the listener. Shunyata's line from last year was used at the ARC factory last year and until the last photo I've seen in mid 2011. (The Audiobeat has a number of such photos on its site). I have not seen any recent photos to know if anything has changed.
I have not heard Shunyata with the Lamm M1.2s and do not know what synergies exist there ---although I cannot imagine that a neutral cable would be anything but a v good match. I have heard the Lamm M1.2s tied to Wilsons with all Transparent as well as all Kubala-Sosna ICs. Both sounded great. Love the Lamm 1.2s.

[daveneumann]

Originally Posted by Dafos

Dave, I may be biased being a long time ARC user, but the ref 3 subject of that comparison was dropped into an all musical fidelity kw system and after the audition, it never left that owners system! He then completed the revamp of his system by replacing the mighty Kw amp for the ref 610, but admittedly, I felt that the gap between the power amps was not as dramatic. What I may recommend though, if still possible, is to wait for the rumored release of a mk2 version of the ref 5 that will likely incorporate design attributes and parts, specifically the white Teflon caps, from the reference anniversary preamp.

Thanks Dafos. Just to clarify, I bought a used Ref 5 with under 300 hours on it. So upgrading to the mk2 version is something I could do down the road. The good thing about this unit is that I don't have much more time before it is fully broken in.

jpgr4blu - Your point about the Cardas being smooth sounding wires is a very good one and something I haven't considered. I have been using them for a long time and have kept them constant while changing out most of the rest of my gear. Many Wilson owners seem to use, and like, Transparent. But that stuff can get extremely expensive. Once I get some time on the preamp in my system, then I might consider trying Transparent or Shunyata. Thanks for the recommendation.

Regards,

Dave