Cremona M's home.

[jetblack]

Serge,

Congrats on your new tunes! That entertainment center intrigues me. It's a piece of work.

Questions:

1) What is that entertainment center?
2) Where did the entertainment center come from?

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jetblack

Serge,

Congrats on your new tunes! That entertainment center intrigues me. It's a piece of work.

Questions:

1) What is that entertainment center?
2) Where did the entertainment center come from?

It's been in our house for quite some time now and I honestly don't recall the manufacturer or the store where we bought it from. I'll ask my wife if she remembers. It is quality built and looks great and sadly I haven't seen anything as nice anywhere near its price in the longest time.

[schaefer11]

Serge, how far back do you sit from the speakers and how far apart are they? From the photos, you seem to be very much in the near field. If so, perhaps the tilted back SF's don't integrate well at that close of a distance, causing the tonal balance you described.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by schaefer11

Serge, how far back do you sit from the speakers and how far apart are they? From the photos, you seem to be very much in the near field. If so, perhaps the tilted back SF's don't integrate well at that close of a distance, causing the tonal balance you described.

Not as nearfield as it appears to be in the pics. The speakers are wider by less than a foot than the distance to the seat. The tweeters are ear level. I also had them flat before the spikes and have played around with tilt angles a bit this afternoon. Tonal balance did not change much at all. I am quite familiar with most SF speakers having spent some time listening to just about every model they offer at various places. The warmish tonal balance is actually a blessing for many. With the Lamm gear, I need more neutral speakers because I can afford to have neutrality. Lamm is devoid of grain, is Class A biased and has very rich harmonic envelope/structure that puts flesh back on the bones of music. The SF sound warmer than they often do with other solid state amps in my own system and I for one find Krell and SF speakers to be a great match as one balances out the other, another words, SF warmth balances out the slight leanness and lack of body often heard with Krell.

[1KW]

Serge

I think if you put one or both of your JLf112 subs. back crossover at 85 hz you will enjoy the Cremona speakers more. The Cremona has a different sound than you are used to as well. Once you get them dialed in with the sub. I expect you will be happier

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 1KW

Serge

I think if you put one or both of your JLf112 subs. back crossover at 85 hz you will enjoy the Cremona speakers more. The Cremona has a different sound than you are used to as well. Once you get them dialed in with the sub. I expect you will be happier

I am not unhappy by any means, after all I get to listen to music once again. Man, it is hard to be without a daily dose of good music once you get into that habit over the years. While there are some stark differences between the last pair of Sasha's and these Cremona Ms, I am still enjoying the music. The Cremona M is not a bad speaker by any means and like I said before, it's just that... well, lets say you love to drive and you drive a Ferrari or a Porsche which is perfect in every way for you daily and then you get to drive say a Benz which is also a great car but it just has a different feel... Neither scenario in reality is bad, just a different flavor and some of the virtues of the one is not there in the other but you still get to drive.

I'll try the subs but 85Hz is not going to work with these speakers. They are already starting to get a bit "fat" in that region so I will augments what is missing down low, around 35 I would guess at this point. They are just a bit lumpy, nothing drastic.

[PHC1]

While on the topic of comparing and contrasting speakers, I wanted to add that I was listening to the Cremona Ms and thinking about the differences between the woofer sizes. While it obviously goes much further than the physical size of woofers, I find that it is rather difficult to nail the perfect scenario or at least cater to my preference when it comes to bass.

The Sasha's had dual 8"s with very strong magnets and beefy voice coils. Articulate, deep, linear bass the plumbed the bass down to 20Hz in my room. Very accurate bass, nothing more to ask for, except... The Sophia II had a single 10" and its bass was maybe a hair or two shy of the excellent accuracy and articulation of Sasha but, it also had a very addicting bass in the sense that it was a rounder, fuller and more analog sounding bass, it often "anchored" the drum kit for example right down to my floor where I not only heard it but felt it as if it was actually sitting in my listening room. It energized the room in a very different way and all this without sounding bloated or having any excessive overhang in the room at all. Let's call it woofer/room interaction phenomenon for lack of better terminology. Most fun to listen to though. The Sasha by comparison gave me a deeper, tighter bass but that illlusion of the drum kit being in the room was not quite there...

The Cremona M with the dual 7s has neither the bass depth nor the illusion of the drums sitting on my floor but is fairly articulate and fast when it comes to bass.


And so it goes, often when the large woofers are deployed, I enjoy the impact and the interaction of a large woofer with the room but I miss the speed and articulation that is often missing with large woofers. Using smaller, multiple woofers increases the articulation and linearity of bass but... it is no longer as interactive with the room itself... Using subs did not increase that particular illusion/phenomenon per say, it only made the bass deeper for some reason.

Of course the Lamm amps are pretty unique in the bass themselves. The texture and articulation/definition are very real and natural sounding. All the amps I've had before were either on the dry, artificially tight bass side or lacking the ultimate articulation and definition down low.

I am hoping the Maxx 3 in my new room will be able to do speed, articulation and impact/woofer/room interaction with the dual 13.5" /10" woofers. Now, that would be perfect! We'll see....

[1KW]

Serge I tried setting the crossover at 35 hz with the Cremona and at 85 hz it sounded much better. Looking forward to your findings once you give it a try, of course I only have one sub. .

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 1KW

Serge I tried setting the crossover at 35 hz with the Cremona and at 85 hz it sounded much better. Looking forward to your findings once you give it a try, of course I only have one sub. .

Define "better".... I like natural sounding bass that is well balanced and doesn't stick out, others find comfort in very bass heavy response. Our rooms our also different and I do run both subs as masters. I'll let you know where the settings fall to my preference though and we will compare notes.

[schaefer11]

I know that multiple woofers of a smaller size will add often add up to more radiating area than fewer woofers of a larger size, but sometimes it seems that a single larger woofer is just better at bass than many smaller woofers. My LS360's have 4 10" woofer per pair. They have play flat to 20hz. But somehow they are not quite the same as my old Klipschorn's pair of 15" woofers that were only flat to 35hz or so. The Klipschorns bass was just "there" unlike any other speaker I've owned.