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  #241  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:28 PM
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No, on the DF-65
Pass Labs XVR1 crossover to keep it analog?
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  #242  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:35 PM
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After doing a few more demos this week... I would be very hard pressed to surpass my Aida/Burmester/Avid/Grandioso Rig. When this system was built, it was a “no holds barred” approach. It has not been static either; many changes and improvements have been made over the years.

Friends whose ears I trust, also concur it would be extremely difficult, if even possible to push the envelope further. The synergy of everything is truly spectacular.

I’m not back peddling, but this new system if it comes to fruition would take enormous planning, and execution.

Just sounding different isn’t going to make the cut.
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Last edited by Masterlu; 07-17-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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  #243  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:30 PM
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Ivan.......It may just be time to sit back, take a deep breath, and exhale slowly. Would this really be the "Last Hurrah", or once built and some time passing will their be the "Last Hurrah Sequel". You know, kind of like Stallone and "Rocky 17" .

Perhaps it's time to just take a break.
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  #244  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Just sounding different isn’t going to make the cut.
Yes, yes, to Buck do you listen.

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  #245  
Old 07-18-2019, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
After doing a few more demos this week... I would be very hard pressed to surpass my Aida/Burmester/Avid/Grandioso Rig. When this system was built, it was a “no holds barred” approach. It has not been static either; many changes and improvements have been made over the years.

Friends whose ears I trust, also concur it would be extremely difficult, if even possible to push the envelope further. The synergy of everything is truly spectacular.

I’m not back peddling, but this new system if it comes to fruition would take enormous planning, and execution.

Just sounding different isn’t going to make the cut.
Out of curiousity, what did you demo?
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  #246  
Old 07-20-2019, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
After doing a few more demos this week... I would be very hard pressed to surpass my Aida/Burmester/Avid/Grandioso Rig. When this system was built, it was a “no holds barred” approach. It has not been static either; many changes and improvements have been made over the years.

Friends whose ears I trust, also concur it would be extremely difficult, if even possible to push the envelope further. The synergy of everything is truly spectacular.

I’m not back peddling, but this new system if it comes to fruition would take enormous planning, and execution.

Just sounding different isn’t going to make the cut.
I believe you are at the point of diminishing returns with this system. It is a truly beautiful well thought out system. Speakers are a matter of taste. The rest of the system impeccable.

But if you change your mind the Se17/Accuphase system is the way to go and you could eliminate the subs. I don't regard a years wait and a trip to Italy as much of an obstacle for you.
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  #247  
Old 07-20-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
After doing a few more demos this week... I would be very hard pressed to surpass my Aida/Burmester/Avid/Grandioso Rig. When this system was built, it was a “no holds barred” approach. It has not been static either; many changes and improvements have been made over the years.

Friends whose ears I trust, also concur it would be extremely difficult, if even possible to push the envelope further. The synergy of everything is truly spectacular.

I’m not back peddling, but this new system if it comes to fruition would take enormous planning, and execution.

Just sounding different isn’t going to make the cut.
Well, you could always invest in a Southwest Oklahoma system at my place to extend the range of your sales. It will probably require a new room added on to my place, but I am willing to take on this burden just for you, and I will accept no more than half the profits, minus expenses and single malt.
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  #248  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
..

But if you change your mind the Se17/Accuphase system is the way to go and you could eliminate the subs. I don't regard a years wait and a trip to Italy as much of an obstacle for you.
One doesn't eliminate subs when addressing the best performance possible. Ever. Subs are in no way diminishing returns, especially at the bleeding edge.
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  #249  
Old 07-20-2019, 01:00 PM
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One doesn't eliminate subs when addressing the best performance possible. Ever. Subs are in no way diminishing returns, especially at the bleeding edge.
The Se17 has a built in 15" sub. Many European designs are IMO not compatible with subs. If the extremely expensive speaker (the current Aida 2 being an example) has an exaggerated bass natural response in the 25-50 Hz range, it makes it difficult to interface with the sub. In such a case you will need both a HP and LP arrangement. The electronic crossovers I have personally experienced I can hear. So you spend many hundreds of thousands on a super system only to run the signal through what is essentially an equalizer. As you know Wilson has solved the problem rather uniquely by eliminating the need for the HP.

The new Aida 2 IMO would never be compatible with a sub without employing a HP. The Se17 is specifically designed to operate without a sub. However, I totally agree that Wilson has the best solution: design their large speakers like the Alexx or WAMM for their subs. Large Wilson speakers do not suffer from peaked bass in the 25-50 Hz range, IMO. Therefore, you can passively employ a Wilson sub (LP only) and achieve a smooth extremely powerful bass down to 10 Hz and even below and no HP. No European super speaker can even match my meager Alexx/Thor combo much less a WAMM dual Subsonic combo. Besides the fact that I love the Wilson house sound, that's why I like Wilson so much. The HP is easy to hear in the Watch Controller. When I began with my Thor I was so utterly convinced that running a HP/LP configuration was superior to LP only I didn't even bother to experiment. Finally, months later on a lark I hooked up my system LP only. The rest is history. But Ivan doesn't care for Wilson. It is very likely the Aida 1 has a smoother less peaked bass response than Aida 2 in the 30-50 Hz range and so works better with a sub.

One of the problems with generic subs is that they must be designed to work with a wide variety of speakers. It is very rare to see a Wilson sub with anything other than Wilson speakers, so much so that in the most recent issue of TAS, they are not even listed among available subs.

Last edited by Charles; 07-20-2019 at 01:14 PM.
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  #250  
Old 07-20-2019, 04:35 PM
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The Se17 has a built in 15" sub. Many European designs are IMO not compatible with subs. If the extremely expensive speaker (the current Aida 2 being an example) has an exaggerated bass natural response in the 25-50 Hz range, it makes it difficult to interface with the sub. In such a case you will need both a HP and LP arrangement. The electronic crossovers I have personally experienced I can hear. So you spend many hundreds of thousands on a super system only to run the signal through what is essentially an equalizer. As you know Wilson has solved the problem rather uniquely by eliminating the need for the HP.

The new Aida 2 IMO would never be compatible with a sub without employing a HP. The Se17 is specifically designed to operate without a sub. However, I totally agree that Wilson has the best solution: design their large speakers like the Alexx or WAMM for their subs. Large Wilson speakers do not suffer from peaked bass in the 25-50 Hz range, IMO. Therefore, you can passively employ a Wilson sub (LP only) and achieve a smooth extremely powerful bass down to 10 Hz and even below and no HP. No European super speaker can even match my meager Alexx/Thor combo much less a WAMM dual Subsonic combo. Besides the fact that I love the Wilson house sound, that's why I like Wilson so much. The HP is easy to hear in the Watch Controller. When I began with my Thor I was so utterly convinced that running a HP/LP configuration was superior to LP only I didn't even bother to experiment. Finally, months later on a lark I hooked up my system LP only. The rest is history. But Ivan doesn't care for Wilson. It is very likely the Aida 1 has a smoother less peaked bass response than Aida 2 in the 30-50 Hz range and so works better with a sub.

One of the problems with generic subs is that they must be designed to work with a wide variety of speakers. It is very rare to see a Wilson sub with anything other than Wilson speakers, so much so that in the most recent issue of TAS, they are not even listed among available subs.
Thank you for being such a passionate Wilson fan Charles!

Wilson does have an advantage with our subs because we design them to work specifically with Wilson speakers, even specific models of Wilson speakers. It's nice if they work with others manufacturers' speakers, but it's not a concern if they don't.

The lack of a HP is SOP for Wilson but also for proper subwoofer integration in most two channel systems. It is proper room positioning of the mains that insures the smooth rolloff necessary. They don't have to be perfect but they do need to be perfectly placed. Without that, it really doesn't matter what you do with the sub.

For the record, I don't have to speculate about the Fenice, the SE17, Aida, or Aida 2. I have experience with all of them. I see and hear nothing in their operation that would preclude their use with properly aligned subs. Finding the right ones may be the trick, but they will (have) indeed work(ed).
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