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Turntables & Tonearms Where Analog still Rules

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  #61  
Old 04-04-2010, 10:40 PM
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jdandy jdandy is offline
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Serge.......If you recall, it wasn't that long ago when I installed the LED kit in my MC352. Upon reinstalling the amp in the rack, and reconnecting the cables I discovered I had lost my left channel. I traced cables, changed cables, pulled the amp out of the rack and removed the bottom cover looking for a problem. It was while the amp was laying upside down on the carpet with its bottom cover removed that I notice I had inadvertently bumped the mono stereo switch to the mono position. I had been trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Human nature seems to have us looking for the most complicated things first. Man, did I feel stupid, not to mention an hour of wrestling that very heavy MC352 amplifier.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
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VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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  #62  
Old 04-04-2010, 10:52 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Serge......I wish I could brag that I have never done anything like that. We are, after all else, human, and subject to all that entails. You are most fortunate that your curiosity kept you intrigued enough to continue to search for the cause of the problem, and not just chalk it up as a fluke. Your persistence was rewarded this time.
Dan what threw me off is that I got to hear the table for the first time with the wrong setting. I know when it happened too. As I set the table, I was futzing around in the back of the EAR with the cables and then decided to move it down and place the motor control box in its place. Not having much room to work with back there, I pushed it back towards the wall and somehow must have engaged the little pushbutton. Of course not knowing anything about the table in my own system I was surprised that gain was lost but assumed it was something with the table and/or DIN tonearm cabling...

All I can say is that after three records under the proper MC setting and my usual MC loading, the sound is infused with air, transparency as if 3 veils were lifted, dynamics that are truly kicking now, wide open soundstage, pretty much an improvement all across the board.

I fail to see how a simple loss of gain would cause this dramatic difference so I assume there is more than just a step up tranny that is disengaged, it must also somehow affect the cartridge loading as it sounds totally different now. I was a bit surprised I could not hear a clear difference playing around with the MC loading half of EAR. I chalked it off to a less reactive combo of a new table/cartridge interaction but this is not the case.

Whatever the case may be, I am trying to pick my jaw up off the floor listening to Alan Parson's Project "A turn of a friendly card" album, the drums are simply incredible, the projected voice has immediacy and clarity that is startling, a much more extended and delicate top end and dynamic drive and slam that I know this cartridge is capable of. Yep, I am back in action!

This table simply rocks.
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  #63  
Old 04-04-2010, 11:00 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Serge.......If you recall, it wasn't that long ago when I installed the LED kit in my MC352. Upon reinstalling the amp in the rack, and reconnecting the cables I discovered I had lost my left channel. I traced cables, changed cables, pulled the amp out of the rack and removed the bottom cover looking for a problem. It was while the amp was laying upside down on the carpet with its bottom cover removed that I notice I had inadvertently bumped the mono stereo switch to the mono position. I had been trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Human nature seems to have us looking for the most complicated things first. Man, did I feel stupid, not to mention an hour of wrestling that very heavy MC352 amplifier.
I remember that story Dan. You are absolutely right. I was trying to figure out how the difference in capacitance could have caused this change in sound between the different phono cables, pondering over why SME V would make the XX2 cart sound much less exciting than I remember it being, going over the calculations and my results from the test LP, researching other tonearm cables, etc... all the while enjoying the sound but deep down inside knowing there must be something off in this whole setup.... Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Once the little stupid button was in the right position, the table simply got up and drop kicked me in the chest! WOW.

Just goes to show how tweaky these things are though. Wrong gain and loading and it totally changes everything.

Last edited by PHC1; 04-04-2010 at 11:02 PM.
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  #64  
Old 04-04-2010, 11:07 PM
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jdandy jdandy is offline
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Serge.......What's really amusing to me is when I read your remark about the loss of gain my first thought was you might not have the Ear set for moving coil. I started to mention it, but then discounted that thought by telling myself, no this is Serge, and he has surely covered that base.

How does that bumper sticker read? $#!t Happens.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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  #65  
Old 04-04-2010, 11:20 PM
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Wish you did say it... I never even thought of checking since I left the EAR off exactly how it was when the XX2 was mounted on the Clearaudio. Of course not being able to appreciate the different MC loadings that were clearly audible before should have tipped me off more than it did.

Right now this is ME
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  #66  
Old 04-05-2010, 02:21 AM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Serge,
your story is funny. It reminds me the KISS rule I learned during my studies in Montreal. A teacher always told us : do not try to find complicated solutions to simple problems ( as Dan said, this is what our nature tends to lead us) : Keep it Simple Sir ( Sugar when he was feeling friendship with one of us...)
One day he told me : later on, you will have 28 teeth to move, align and coordinate x 500 to 1000 active patients. If you don't think simple, you'll be dead !
Cheers
Jerome
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  #67  
Old 04-05-2010, 11:26 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
Serge,
your story is funny. It reminds me the KISS rule I learned during my studies in Montreal. A teacher always told us : do not try to find complicated solutions to simple problems ( as Dan said, this is what our nature tends to lead us) : Keep it Simple Sir ( Sugar when he was feeling friendship with one of us...)
One day he told me : later on, you will have 28 teeth to move, align and coordinate x 500 to 1000 active patients. If you don't think simple, you'll be dead !
Cheers
Jerome
Your teacher is a wise man.
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  #68  
Old 04-05-2010, 11:36 AM
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You might wish to try it without the damping reservoir just to see what you like. Conrad Mas of Avid recommends against using the reservoir but that comment is specific to his tables. I don't use it personally and am very pleased with the sound.

Howie, I may try it without the damping fluid when it comes time to change the fluid. I have however noticed the benefits, at least on the HiFi test record as there is virtually no resonance in the horizontal vibration test. Now, it is adjustable of course as to just how much dampening one applies as when you think about it, the way it works is the screw body rides inside the silicone fluid tank in tandem with the horizontal pivoting of the tonearm as it moves across the record. Not enough and it is free to interact and vibrate in the horizontal plane with the resulting resonance due to groove modulation/interaction sometimes hitting a resonance point. Too much damping and it loses the natural "boogie factor" as Jeff has suggested to me.

At this point I am simply following Jeff's advice on where it should be set. It sounds great now and once I get used to the sound, I will experiment some with it as well as trying the damping tank empty.
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  #69  
Old 04-05-2010, 01:22 PM
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KMC45 KMC45 is offline
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Reading your early review of the table I was thinking to myself that it didn't seem representative of the table and the EAR. I was going to blame everything on the Sonus Faber speakers.
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  #70  
Old 04-05-2010, 08:10 PM
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Reading your early review of the table I was thinking to myself that it didn't seem representative of the table and the EAR. I was going to blame everything on the Sonus Faber speakers.
Nope can't blame the Sonus Faber. I was actually surprised just how much the speakers opened up once I played around with loading and gain some more today. There are many combinations to try between the EAR and preamp and between the different levels of gain and loading which also ties in to the linearity of whatever preamp you are using (Lamm in my case) since one affects the other, it is a lot of going back and forth.

I have to say, I've been playing and listening all day today and this is one seriously impressive table. I am still laughing at myself though for making that rookie mistake and actually believing in it.

As much as I hate to retract my statement that this table is good but the law of diminishing applies, this is simply no longer true.

I am rewarded with jet black background, wide open soundstage, more palpable images, even better dynamics, deep and articulate bass that I didn't even know the Cremona Ms were capable of (nothing on CD comes close), midrange that is tear jerkingly gorgeous and highs that are truly making me happy with their sparkle and non etched quality. Midrange specifically is so right, engaging and oh, soooo emotional. This all makes sense as the table is designed to extract the maximum information from the grooves. Where I had to resort to Gingko platform, carbon fiber mat, center weight, periphery clamp on the Clearaudio to really flush out the dynamics and keep the table from becoming too resonant and ear scorching, the SME sitting stock on a glass table does all the above and still manages to beat the pants off what I had before.

Using the reflex clamp and varying the tightness takes the small warps right out of any record, the SME arm tracks linearly with virtually no bobbing up and down. The suspension seems to be doing its job really well and keeping the acoustic feedback out of the table. I tapped on the upper and lower plinths and could not induce any acoustic feedback into the arm/cart, something I was able to do with the Clearaudio.

Yep, the EAR/SMEV/Dynavector are jiving together much to my satisfaction now. This table is a keeper for sure.
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