Time-alignment of Speakers

[chessman]

Has anyone used a time-alignment device (like a Rane AD22s) to delay the main speakers signal output enough to integrate a pair of "stereo" subs? If so, I would love to hear about your experience. Does it play well with an active cross-over? Does it degrade the sound?

[nicoff]

I just did that with my system this past weekend. See my post under the thread called "My Afternoon with Barry Ober".

[nicoff]

No degradation of the sound. My post on the other thread has a link to Barry's website and white papers he wrote on that subject.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by nicoff

No degradation of the sound. My post on the other thread has a link to Barry's website and white papers he wrote on that subject.

I had already read that thread with quite a bit of interest. Barry attacked your time alignment issue by physically moving the subs. In my case I cannot physically move them, so I thought I would "delay" the mains instead.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by chessman

I had already read that thread with quite a bit of interest. Barry attacked your time alignment issue by physically moving the subs. In my case I cannot physically move them, so I thought I would "delay" the mains instead.

The MEN220, which I am using now as only an active crossover, allows you to set the distance from the listener to adjust timing. You can adjust to your hearts content to set the relative timing of each speaker to the others. I don't have the elixir yet but I am getting closer getting my Fathom F113 v2 to merge well with my Strads.

[o0OBillO0o]

Originally Posted by crwilli

The MEN220, which I am using now as only an active crossover, allows you to set the distance from the listener to adjust timing. You can adjust to your hearts content to set the relative timing of each speaker to the others. I don't have the elixir yet but I am getting closer getting my Fathom F113 v2 to merge well with my Strads.

+1

It's so simple and straightforward with the MEN220.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

+1 It's so simple and straightforward with the MEN220.

However ---- I Have found the MEN220 does not like having the sub virtually placed 120" behind the main speakers. It will send loud squealing noises through your speakers. To avoid that issue, I have resolved to bring the sub closer to me so I don't have to tell the MEN220 the sub is 120" behind. Follow me. The sub is between the mains and the LP. So I only tell the MEN220 that the sub is 84" behind the mains to achieve the needed mains delay equal to if the sub is ~10' in front of the mains.

Hope that makes sense.

[nicoff]

Originally Posted by chessman

I had already read that thread with quite a bit of interest. Barry attacked your time alignment issue by physically moving the subs. In my case I cannot physically move them, so I thought I would "delay" the mains instead.

Actually he changed the time alignment by changing the speaker distances in the digital preamp. He set all speakers to 7 feet (independent from their actual location to the listener) and all the subs to 19' also independent from actual distances. The subs were placed where they best matched the room physical frequencies independent from time alignment. Then he uses the phase of the sub to match the speakers to the subs. He explains the logic of doing this in the white papers posted on his website.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by nicoff

Actually he changed the time alignment by changing the speaker distances in the digital preamp. He set all speakers to 7 feet (independent from their actual location to the listener) and all the subs to 19' also independent from actual distances. The subs were placed where they best matched the room physical frequencies independent from time alignment. Then he uses the phase of the sub to match the speakers to the subs. He explains the logic of doing this in the white papers posted on his website.

I used his technique to time align my third sub that is used exclusively for LFE in home theater operations. I set my other speakers to 9 feet and that sub to 21 feet to achieve what is, in effect, a 12 millisecond delay of the mains. The problem in the two channel mode is that I do not have a device like a MEN 220 or a Rane to delay the mains.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by chessman

I used his technique to time align my third sub that is used exclusively for LFE in home theater operations. I set my other speakers to 9 feet and that sub to 21 feet to achieve what is, in effect, a 12 millisecond delay of the mains. The problem in the two channel mode is that I do not have a device like a MEN 220 or a Rane to delay the mains.

Randy,

If the inherent delay of the sub is equal to the time it takes to go 12' AND your sub is exactly in the same position as your Mains, this works.

What would do if your sub is 5' 6" from the LP and the Mains are 11' from my LP? Eg the mains are already slightly delayed from the sub.

Craig