Conrad Johnson GAT Owner Problems?

[Coppy]

Originally Posted by audiojem

I don't know why CJ does not put better tubes in the GAT, they use the same tube in the base ET-3 a $2500.00 unit.
I know its all about money but a cheap EH tube in a $20,000.00 pre amp come on CJ!

Not sure that's a fair comment. To begin with, many people think the EH tubes are fine performers. c-j must have many tubes available for new equipment and for replacement stock and so must choose a brand that makes acceptable product that can be restocked. Certainly not any NOS. They then buy many hundreds of them before testing and rejecting a significant percentage, (a reason to buy your replacements from them). Their equipment at all levels is actually designed around this available tube stock. BTW, they would respectfully disagree with there being many benefits at all in tube rolling. On the other hand... love the sound of my Teles in Mr. GAT.

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by audiojem

I don't know why CJ does not put better tubes in the GAT, they use the same tube in the base ET-3 a $2500.00 unit.
I know its all about money but a cheap EH tube in a $20,000.00 pre amp come on CJ!

What tube, noting that it has to be available new and in quantities such that owners will have it easily available for many, many years down the road, do you suggest cj use? And I've had no trouble with the 6922s in my GAT since I owned it (now going on three or four years now?).

[Briz Vegaas]

I've had three GATs in my sock draw and my sisters kids found some under the house. Oh, hang on, those were gnats.

It's the beta issue of low volume gear me thinks. The customer becomes the beta testing person.

I had a couple of fuses go with my CA200 but then it settled down. My CT5 needed a grounding plate but now also seems fine and the LP70s has been good, touch wood.
All was done promptly and under warranty and with a loaner when required or requested. We get good backup here in Brisbane, Australia.

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by Briz Vegaas

I've had three GATs in my sock draw and my sisters kids found some under the house. Oh, hang on, those were gnats.

It's the beta issue of low volume gear me thinks. The customer becomes the beta testing person.

I had a couple of fuses go with my CA200 but then it settled down. My CT5 needed a grounding plate but now also seems fine and the LP70s has been good, touch wood.
All was done promptly and under warranty and with a loaner when required or requested. We get good backup here in Brisbane, Australia.

I've had three problems in owning cj gear for over 25 years. In fact that's a major reason I own cj. One-a resistor went in a 7 year old MV75A1. He'll even a seven year old Krell KSA100 was known to lose an output transistor on occasion. Show me any piece of electronics, be it a playstation, printer or amplifier, that doesn't have a failure rate be it 2% or 50%. You only hear of the latter like the failure rate of the new-and might I add very, very pricey, OLEDs. Two-II had an issue with a power transformer in a MV125. The transformer company screwed up the winding and it only became apparent after the part had been used and heated up for a while. Three-cj had a problem with the new Teflon caps they installed in the ART S III preamps. Again and despite Q/C these caps failed at around 500 hrs. Might I add cj replaced them right away. (And might I add that from experiences in another profession, Q/C misses a lot of problems). So I would consider with saving owned now over probably 15 cj pieces over the years pretty good reliability.

[Joe Appierto]

Originally Posted by Briz Vegaas

I've had three GATs in my sock draw and my sisters kids found some under the house. Oh, hang on, those were gnats.

It's the beta issue of low volume gear me thinks. The customer becomes the beta testing person.

I had a couple of fuses go with my CA200 but then it settled down. My CT5 needed a grounding plate but now also seems fine and the LP70s has been good, touch wood.
All was done promptly and under warranty and with a loaner when required or requested. We get good backup here in Brisbane, Australia.

I've found c-j gear to be reliable as well in the 20 years I've owned their products. Not counting a self-inflicted wound with the Premier 140, the only real issue I've had was the right channel going dead on my Pr. 16LS2. Once repaired, the issue never resurfaced.

Interesting that you mention fuses and the CA200. I've gone through more than a couple both stock and after market fuses on the mains connection. It would happen when I'd change power cords. When powering the unit back on, from the power conditioner, the fuse would often blow. I've since changed it to a HiFi-Tuning Gold XT fuse and, fingers crossed, it hasn't happened since. The XT is an extra slow blow type made specifically for units with a powerful transformer (such as an amp). It's exactly the value specified -- I learned that lesson with the 140.

[audiojem]

I was tired of listening to background tube noise on my 45 day old GAT so I popped in a pair of Genelex Russian 6922's WOW, WOW, dead quiet hope it lasts!
The thing that rubs me the wrong way with CJ and others is the fact that this is a $20,000.00 pre-amp and you use a $5.00 tube, why not pony up a few more bucks and give the customer a better tube?
Their statement piece and their lowest priced pre-amp ET-3 $2500.00 use the same tube!
I have a ET-3SE also and have had noise problems with it!
On Monday I going to send my 3 noisy tubes back to CJ.
Dead Quiet For Now.

[pstrisik]

Supposedly they choose the best sounding tubes for which they can have confidence in continuing supply. They supposedly are picky about quality control within a given lot of tubes. I don't know how true either of these are.

I like the Genelex 6922's also. I tried several brands and have settled on these for my 17LS (not withstanding the possible tube failure problem I'm having with it - still not sure it's a tube).

[Coppy]

Originally Posted by pstrisik

Supposedly they choose the best sounding tubes for which they can have confidence in continuing supply. They supposedly are picky about quality control within a given lot of tubes. I don't know how true either of these are.

I like the Genelex 6922's also. I tried several brands and have settled on these for my 17LS (not withstanding the possible tube failure problem I'm having with it - still not sure it's a tube).

You are correct. I've been to the factory on a number of occasions and can verify your understanding is accurate. c-j must buy tubes that are available in large quantities now and to stockpile for the future replacement orders. Remember, they supply replacement tubes for many years for all their current and former products. The tubes they buy are all tested. Some tube mfgrs are not considered as the rejection ratio of the product is so high. When buying in quantity they usually can't send faulty tubes back for credit. Vacuum tubes are all hand made overseas from tiny, often marginally made parts, in factories that would scare you with their processes. Check it out on the internet. I understand that EAT tubes come from the same mfgrs. as some you can buy. They simply test, re-lable and repackage them for sale at high prices. You
could never make tubes in the US on a cost effective basis. It's a wonder any of them work well at all. Obviously, NOS tubes are not options.

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by Coppy

You are correct. I've been to the factory on a number of occasions and can verify your understanding is accurate. c-j must buy tubes that are available in large quantities now and to stockpile for the future replacement orders. Remember, they supply replacement tubes for many years for all their current and former products. The tubes they buy are all tested. Some tube mfgrs are not considered as the rejection ratio of the product is so high. When buying in quantity they usually can't send faulty tubes back for credit. Vacuum tubes are all hand made overseas from tiny, often marginally made parts, in factories that would scare you with their processes. Check it out on the internet. I understand that EAT tubes come from the same mfgrs. as some you can buy. They simply test, re-lable and repackage them for sale at high prices. You
could never make tubes in the US on a cost effective basis. It's a wonder any of them work well at all. Obviously, NOS tubes are not options.

Not to mention that cj doesn't just put their tubes in tube tester but burns them in and puts them a mini circuit so as to assess the equipment meets its stated distortion, etc.

I'm not sure about the currently used tubes but back a couple years, cj's tube reject rate was 30-40 pct. You know what happened to the rejects? They went back to the distributor who put them back on the shelf and sold them to other people. Biggest example was the old GE 6550s where after a while, all Richardson had on its shelves were quadruple rejects from companies. No worries because they continued to pass them off as good tubes.

[Puma Cat]

If you talk to C-J, their top requirements for selecting a tube is reliability and durability (which are different measures of quality).