802D2 vs 803D3 - back to back audition

[joey_v]

Originally Posted by Venere

As it should be for the price and design differential, dont you think?

My comment was directed to my quoted reply that there isn't much of a diff between the 804 and 803. If you are familiar with each or hear them in quick succession, the 803 is leaps beyond the 804 in terms of the BW sound.

[Rod#S]

Originally Posted by joey_v

Heard the 804d3 and 803d3 back to back on instant a/b switch... not even close. It's not just the bass, it's everything.

Naturally, it was the same thing when comparing the former 803D2 to the 802D2.

[randyhat]

Yesterday I listened to the 805D3 at two different stores. The first store Magnolia. The salesman was knowledgeable and helpful. The speakers were setup in their "high end" listening room. The 805s were powered by a Rotel amp and pre. As I had auditioned previous versions of the 805 in the past my expectations were high. Also, the fact that everything I read about the new models was glowing, I was set to be dazzled. What a disappointment. The speakers sounded totally unremarkable. I think it must have been the setup, the room, or the associated equipment. I can't believe these premium speakers could sound so mediocre on their own. It did make we want to hear them on my own system in my room. After this letdown I stopped by a Modia store where they also had the 805s, powered by Classe Monoblocs. This audition went a little better but I was still left somewhat underwhelmed. Anyone else had similar experiences listening to these speakers?

[2dparrish]

Hi, randyhat,

While I haven't heard the 805 d3 with Rotel electronics, I've heard them with McIntosh as well as Classe. Provided setup and front end/source are adequate, they are amazingly open, transparent, and excellent imaging speakers. Having said that, it helps to know what you're comparing them to. For instance, while their low end is excellent for a very small bookshelf speaker, they aren't going to be able to match the low end of a larger speaker (e.g., 803/802), and while the midrange is pretty wonderful with the new Continuum driver, it isn't going to match the naturalness/clarity of the larger midrange with a separate enclosure on the larger speakers.

I have 802 d3 and htm1 d3 for front/center in my system, with 805 d3 for rears. I auditioned the 805 alone first at Magnolia with a McIntosh system. I thought they were outstanding speakers for the money--very much the same fast, transparent, low distortion yet smooth (no brightness) family sound of the larger speakers. Yet because of their size, they aren't going to be able to compete with larger speakers of the same quality. As a listener primarily of acoustic music, I value a speaker that delivers a neutral and accurate sound which can produce the natural timbres of instruments, voices, and hall acoustics. While not as close to live as the bigger d3 series speakers, the 805 d3 IMO does VERY well for its size and price, and considerably better than the 805d2 (which were quite good).

I listen to CD, SACD, Tidal streaming hi-rez, hi-rez files (up to 196/24) and vinyl on a pretty high end system (VPI Classic Signature/Soundsmith Sussuro/Avid Pulsare II), as well as DVD/Blurays for movies. My setup at home includes Classe Sigma AMP5/SSP, which is in between Classe solid state and McIntosh tonally (more definition of sound than McIntosh, a bit less high end energy than solid state Classe setups that I've heard, though only in store, not at home).

But bottom line, yes, it can be difficult to get a good audition (and Magnolia often doesn't have the best setup--I visited one location that had the room so overly damped that the speakers sounded dead) and it certainly depends on what you are expecting/hoping to hear, what you are comparing them to. And of course, while many here would love to convince you of the merits of B&W, we realize there are other excellent and different choices to be made. Best wishes with your search.

[Jagman]

I've never heard B&W speakers and Rotel sound great together. I owned a Rotel amp with my previously owned CM10's and I heard the 803 D2's with the same amp. There is a reason for the low price point. They are workable amps IMO but can't compare to higher end offerings like Classe and Mac.

[randyhat]

"I visited one location that had the room so overly damped that the speakers sounded dead"

That is exactly how I would describe the sound. Dead. No liveliness, no sense of acoustic space, no sparkle. I have to assume it was the room; it did seem heavily treated. In fact I was so shocked by how bad they sounded that I asked to hear the 804D3 which BTW was in the next room in a lineup with about 8 other towers. In this room, even with its horrible setup and lower quality electronics, the 804D3 opened up and gave me a glimpse of what I was expecting to hear rom the 805.

I am familiar with the early versions of the 805 and am aware of the limitations of a standpoint monitor. I was comparing it to what I hear in my home system (SP Tech Mini Timepiece monitors, Bryston 4bSST2 power amp, Audio Research LS-15 line stage). What was missing was any sense of 3 dimensionality and naturalness.

Magnolia does offer a 15 day return policy. I may try them out in my own home just to give them a "proper" audition. My home setup is certainly not a perfect audio environment but at least it is an environment I am familiar with.

[2dparrish]

Originally Posted by randyhat

"I visited one location that had the room so overly damped that the speakers sounded dead" That is exactly how I would describe the sound. Dead. No liveliness, no sense of acoustic space, no sparkle. I have to assume it was the room; it did seem heavily treated. In fact I was so shocked by how bad they sounded that I asked to hear the 804D3 which BTW was in the next room in a lineup with about 8 other towers. In this room, even with its horrible setup and lower quality electronics, the 804D3 opened up and gave me a glimpse of what I was expecting to hear rom the 805. I am familiar with the early versions of the 805 and am aware of the limitations of a standpoint monitor. I was comparing it to what I hear in my home system (SP Tech Mini Timepiece monitors, Bryston 4bSST2 power amp, Audio Research LS-15 line stage). What was missing was any sense of 3 dimensionality and naturalness. Magnolia does offer a 15 day return policy. I may try them out in my own home just to give them a "proper" audition. My home setup is certainly not a perfect audio environment but at least it is an environment I am familiar with.

While I am not familiar with your current speakers, I can attest that in my system the 805 have imaging in spades....that is one of the major improvements from the previous series--wider, deeper. I would think they would be a good match with Bryston, which I haven't heard, but which has a very high reputation. Perhaps trying them out with the option to return would be the best way to know how they would work for you.

[aardvarkbark]

I imagine that more 805s are sold in conjunction with Rotel than with Classe, so I do understand Magnolia's pairing. But do people buy Classe monoblocs to power 805s? Regardless, customer service at Magnolia usually vastly exceeds that which can be obtained at Modia, for sure.

[fuboi]

Originally Posted by joey_v

And my 66 year old dad was there with me and listened. Without even asking for his opinion.

"The new is 25% better than the old one. There's a big difference. You can easily tell.... even if you're not an audiophile."

The 802D2s were already held in pretty high esteem, the new ones must be close to the best speakers on earth according to this statement.

[bruno2009]

I own the 802D2 and had the chance to do some intensive listening with the 802D3. Personally, I found the differences to be far more subtle and if, to be headed in a totally different direction to what I would expect from a big B&W.

First, the listening impressions seem to be on permanent repeat when a new 802 comes around and gets compared to its predecessor - far improved and tighter bass, not so bright in the treble, better imaging, etc... This has been the same ever since the first 802 came out... considering, the older models must have been terrible - after all, building a great speaker is not an endless scientific journey. B&W spent decades of research in finally making the 802D2 and it was considered to be "the speaker of a lifetime" only 5 years back - now the new 802D3 has "far improved bass, less fatiguing treble etc..." (exactly the same you could read when comparing 802D to 802D2.

Further - the jump in price is immense - if you were to compare, you should compare the 802D3 to the 800D2.

Last but not least, I personally still can`t get used to the new design - it`s a little hipster if you ask me.

The noticable differences in sound are also a step away from the former B&W sound - which was what made these speaker so special.

All together I`ve loved the brand and the 800 series for decades - I think B&W is now taking on a different path, so that my next speaker will probably be a different one, as I really can`t get used to the new direction.

I think the new series will probably open for a new clientele - but loose some of the old.

To me, the best speaker B&W ever made, especially when putting the value into the equation, is the 802D2. Consindering my personal taste in sound, I would choose an 800D2 over the 802D3 any time.

What will come next? 802D4 - far better and tighter bass, less fatiguing treble and far better imaging... I bet.