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Conrad-Johnson It just sounds right

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Old 03-11-2012, 06:35 PM
bgiliberti bgiliberti is offline
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Default LP70s v. Classic 60

I'm trying to decide between these 2. The prices are different, but not that different in the scheme of things (on the used market for the LP70s). I've read through what people are saying about the LP70s, and basically, they love it, but there is an issue of tube matching. Not much has been said about the Classic 60. Aside from the looks (matter of opinion), for driving Harbeth 30 (not that demanding), any thoughts on the difference? I have auditioned the Classic 60 at a store, and thought it sounded it quite nice, but maybe a bit thin in the midrange, but with nice crisp highs, very open. My preamp is the Classic SE, which I like a lot. Oh, I didn't like the Classic 60 SE that much -- It thought it sounded rolled off in the highs.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:47 PM
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ronenash ronenash is offline
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The LP70s is a better amp which includes better components (Teflon caps and Vishay resistors). Its more comparable to the Classic 60 SE in performance. It also looks better with a very nice case work.
Regarding the Classic 60 SE it should be all but roled off in the highs. It does need a lot of burn it to come to song (500 hours minimum). Because the Classic 60 SE uses teflons as coupling capacitors vs. the Classic SE preamp which uses teflons to bypass polyprop capacitors it takes a very long time to break in.
If you get a used LP70s you will save yourself the long break in time.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:42 PM
bgiliberti bgiliberti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronenash View Post
The LP70s is a better amp which includes better components (Teflon caps and Vishay resistors). Its more comparable to the Classic 60 SE in performance. It also looks better with a very nice case work.
Regarding the Classic 60 SE it should be all but roled off in the highs. It does need a lot of burn it to come to song (500 hours minimum). Because the Classic 60 SE uses teflons as coupling capacitors vs. the Classic SE preamp which uses teflons to bypass polyprop capacitors it takes a very long time to break in.
If you get a used LP70s you will save yourself the long break in time.
I was surprised about what I call the rolled off highs on the Classic 60 SE also. In reply to my comment about that, the dealer said that the SE floor unit I was listening to had somewhat fewer hours than the reg Classic 60. More interestingly, he said that the reg Classic 60 does sound brighter regardless. He attributed the apparent brightness to the lack of midrange in the reg Classic, which makes it sound brighter. I dunno. The SE just seemed much more laid back and soft. Yes, it just seems wrong, I was so perplexed that I checked the back of the units to make sure they had not been mixed up.

I also listened to the ET250S, a different animal obviously. It blew away both Classics, but its tonal balance was more like the non-teflon Classic. Unfortunately, they did not have an LP70s to audition. I expect it is quite a bit better than the Classic 60 SE, given the price difference. It's possible the Classic SE I listened to was not broken in enough, but i did get the impression it had at least 200 hours. Maybe it had hit the well known Teflon break in back step. My Classic SE preamp nearly drove me insane during break in with the peaks and valleys, but now I love it.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:13 AM
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Ultimately you need to trust your ears just make sure any CJ amp with Teflon caps had enough break in time. Too many people have sold CJ gear that was not broken in enough. I think you need a minimum of 500 hours for the amp to stabilize and start to sound good. At 1000 hours it really comes to song.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:11 AM
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Bgilberti,
The amps with the Telfon caps can sound pretty dark and compressed until they start to burn in as Ron has pointed out.

I haven't heard the Classic or Clsssic SE amps yet, but I have an LP70S and it's a wonderful amp....very fast, transparent, clean and neutral.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:49 AM
bgiliberti bgiliberti is offline
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Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
Bgilberti,
The amps with the Telfon caps can sound pretty dark and compressed until they start to burn in as Ron has pointed out.

I haven't heard the Classic or Clsssic SE amps yet, but I have an LP70S and it's a wonderful amp....very fast, transparent, clean and neutral.
I have heard great things about the LP70S, but I'm also wondering about something else, with it and the Classics, and that's power. My MF80 has 80 watts, and it plays plenty loud in my room with with Harbeth 30s, which are pretty efficient. OTOH, I can't say that it sounds "powerful" or authoritative, like some of the more powerful amps I've heard. My concern about moving up to the LPS 70, which I am sure is a better amp than the Classic, is whether, aside from its wonderful voicing, it has enough power to sound, well, "powerful." I know that the issue of whether you can hear "more power" is much debated, as long as you are below clipping. Like, does an LPS70 sound exactly like an LPS 275 at non-earbleed listening levels? Any thoughts on this from PC or anyone?
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:20 PM
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I think both the LP70s and the Classic 60 SE will sound more powerful than your MF80. Tube amps generally sound more powerful than their SS counterpart of the same rating because of the graceful way in which they reach their full power ratings and the better dynamics that they usually offer. I wouldn't worry about power at all.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:23 PM
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Just to add my two cents to this. I have had both (similar) amps.
I had a LP70S that believe it or not had a small issue that was fixed under warranty and without issue. During the two weeks it was back at CJ, I had borrowed from the dealer a MV 60 which is very similar to Classic if not really the Classic 60. What I noticed was the LP70s had more detail throughout the frequency range, more three dimensionality and I am sure that had to do with the upgraded components compared to the other amp. It seems to have a bit more punch.
I believe both are great amps and you would be happy with either one but the LP70S has just a bit more of "it sounds right"

Just my 2 cents

Jeff
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:09 AM
bgiliberti bgiliberti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjayz View Post
Just to add my two cents to this. I have had both (similar) amps.
I had a LP70S that believe it or not had a small issue that was fixed under warranty and without issue. During the two weeks it was back at CJ, I had borrowed from the dealer a MV 60 which is very similar to Classic if not really the Classic 60. What I noticed was the LP70s had more detail throughout the frequency range, more three dimensionality and I am sure that had to do with the upgraded components compared to the other amp. It seems to have a bit more punch.
I believe both are great amps and you would be happy with either one but the LP70S has just a bit more of "it sounds right"

Just my 2 cents

Jeff
Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I'm beginning to think I may not be a tube amp guy, because the Classic 60s (both) were definitely not 'punchy' enough for me, even though they both had a wonderful sound stage. The ET250S definitely sounded like a powerful amp, which it is, even though it lacks the dimensionality of the valve amps. If the LP70s sounds a lot like the Classic 60 SE, which I think it might, it may not be right for me. However, it's a pretty big jump in price to the ET250s from the Classics. I think the LPS70 is also cheaper on the used market than the ET-250, or at least more abundant. I think I need to audition an LPS70 against an ET250S to make up my mind. In advance, I know its a somewhat apples to oranges comparison.
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgiliberti View Post
Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I'm beginning to think I may not be a tube amp guy, because the Classic 60s (both) were definitely not 'punchy' enough for me, even though they both had a wonderful sound stage. The ET250S definitely sounded like a powerful amp, which it is, even though it lacks the dimensionality of the valve amps. If the LP70s sounds a lot like the Classic 60 SE, which I think it might, it may not be right for me. However, it's a pretty big jump in price to the ET250s from the Classics. I think the LPS70 is also cheaper on the used market than the ET-250, or at least more abundant. I think I need to audition an LPS70 against an ET250S to make up my mind. In advance, I know its a somewhat apples to oranges comparison.
Bgiliberti,

The amplifier you may want is actually two... the LP140 mono blocks. More power, impact and with all the dimensionality all in one package(s).

Good luck...
Bob
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