AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > JL Audio

JL Audio Ahead of the Curve

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:04 PM
-E-'s Avatar
-E- -E- is offline
Media Server Aficionado



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: East Bay SF, CA
Posts: 6,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killergurt View Post
That is true. Instead, I opened a bottle of wine and...... sat down to read the manual :-)
This sounds like something I'd do... except the RTFM part...
__________________
Main: McIntosh XRT1K MDA1000 MC402 | JL F113 | Bryston BUC-1 | WireWorld Cabling | RGPC1200C | PPP
Office: Bel Canto S300iu 24/96 | KEF LS50 | REL R218 | WW Mini Eclipse | 18 TB Media Server
Mobile: McIntosh MX406 MDA5000 MCD4000 MCC420M | JM Lab/Focal Utopia
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:34 PM
Masterlu's Avatar
Masterlu Masterlu is online now
AA Founder, Legend AV Owner



 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South FL & Cape Cod MA
Posts: 70,440
Default



I see WW cables getting closer and closer...
__________________
Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A250 AMPS, C3850 PRE-AMP, DP950 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC950 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-58 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO, FORTRESS SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G01X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1 CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Bryston/Esoteric System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E650 INTEGRATED, DP560 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WIREWORLD GOLD CABLES
Bryston Active System: BP26 PRE-AMP, MPS2 POWER SUPPLY, BAX-1 CROSSOVER, BDA-3 DAC, BDP-3 PLAYER, BCD-3 CD PLAYER, BIT15(2), MODEL T ACTIVE SPEAKERS, 21B3 CUBED AMPS, SILENZIO, TARGET RACK, WIREWORLD SILVER CABLES

Accuphase E-800 inbound...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2018, 08:32 PM
Killergurt Killergurt is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: California
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post


I see WW cables getting closer and closer...
I just checked, it’s arriving on Friday..... I am dying here...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-26-2018, 12:16 AM
Killergurt Killergurt is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: California
Posts: 328
Default

Alright, it’s all here!
I connected thr sub to my preamp and I have a question: I split the outputs using a Y, so now I have 2 XLRs going into the subwoofer (Left and Right).
Ever since I did that, I noticed that the main speakers volume went down. They are not as loud as they used to be. Does this make sense or am I imagining it?

Thank you for your help.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-02-2018, 10:37 AM
Pampero Pampero is offline
Audiot
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 548
Default

Going from a balanced output to an unbalanced input or vice versa will cost you 6dB of gain.
Splitting the signal can do this with some caveats about the actual amount of loss. That varies according to the degree of impedance mismatch which will be different for different gear. This assumes there is no way to make that gain up using a line stage amplifier with variable input (or output) gain capability. I don't know what your associated equipment is, the configuration or connection scheme or the characteristics of your gear, only that you are using a Y cable. But in general, a variation in gain to the next input or output stage depends on a few factors, key being related to impedance and input/output matching.

It helps to know what equipment you use, the cabling (type...balanced or unbalanced) and which outputs and inputs, ( their characteristics) you are connecting. It's sometimes the case that the connector might seem to be balanced (an XLR for example) but the actual circuitry behind it isn't. This will create a loss, typically 6dB. It's more common than you might think since it costs more money to design and build true balanced circuitry than it does to just add a connector as a convenience and say you have balanced connectors. Which is true as fas as the connectors themselves are concerned but is really only half the story.

It's likely one or more factors are in play to cause a loss of gain. To recap, going balanced to unbalanced and vice versa or having created an impedance mismatch (the Y cable could do that by splitting the signal thus altering the system impedance at that point) being the usual culprits. You may not notice it on the sub which has its own input gain stage but clearly you do on the mains where makeup gain needs to be added to obtain unity through the system yet the ability to do that may not provided.

If your gear is robust and doesn't mind working a little harder, it won't be too devastating and you can adjust gain at the sub to help with a smoother transition to the mains. However, impedance mismatches aren't always linear (by frequency) across the audio band so there may be a small difference in FR as well as gain. There is also the real potential for an increase in noise when make up gain has to be used. Such might or might not be objectionable to you depending on the clean voltage gain your preamp is capable of, the system's basic noise floor, how hard you push your rig and so forth. So yes, you could be losing some gain depending on your connection scheme and equipment.

I usually try to avoid Y cables unless that's the only option. There can be worse sins in audio connection land but it's a possibility your system isn't capable of being optimized for unity gain given the connection/.circuit types, cables and architecture as you now have it configured. This is not that uncommon but isn't always addressed or recognized in home audio where measurement and correction of the signal level (gain) in absolute terms are not usually attempted by the user.

In pro systems, a 6dB loss of gain will be accompanied by gnashing of teeth and frantic searches for the reason why.
__________________
Lew

Last edited by Pampero; 06-06-2018 at 09:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-02-2018, 12:31 PM
nicoff nicoff is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
Going from a balanced output to an unbalanced input or vice versa will cost you 6dB of gain.
Splitting the signal can do this with some caveats about the actual amount of loss. That varies according to the degree of impedance mismatch which will be different for different gear. This assumes there is no way to make that gain up using a line stage amplifier with variable input (or output) gain capability. I don't know what your associated equipment is, the configuration or connection scheme or the characteristics if your gear, only that you are using a Y cable. But in general, a variation in gain to the next input or output stage depends on a few factors, key being related to impedance and input/output matching.

It helps to know what equipment you use, the cabling (type...balanced or unbalanced) and which outputs and inputs, ( their characteristics) you are connecting. It's sometimes the case that the connector might seem to be balanced (an XLR for example) but the actual circuitry behind it isn't. This will create a loss, typically 6dB. It's more common than you might think since it costs money to design and build true balanced circuitry than it does to just add a connector as a convenience and say you have balanced connectors. Which is true as fas as the connectors themselves are concerned but is really only half the story.

It's likely one or more factors are in play to cause a loss of gain. To recap, going balanced to unbalanced and vice versa or having created an impedance mismatch (the Y cable could do that by splitting the signal thus altering the system impedance at that point) being the usual culprits. You may not notice it on the sub which has its own input gain stage but clearly you do on the mains where makeup gain needs to be added to obtain unity through the system yet the ability to do that may not provided.

If your gear is robust and doesn't mind working a little harder, it won't be too devastating and you can adjust gain at the sub to help with a smoother transition to the mains. However, impedance mismatches aren't always linear (by frequency) across the audio band so there may be a small difference in FR as well as gain. There is also the real potential for an increase in noise when make up gain has to be used. Such might or might not be objectionable to you depending on the clean voltage gain your preamp is capable of, the system's basic noise floor, how hard you push your rig and so forth. So yes, you could be losing some gain depending on your connection scheme and equipment.

I usually try to avoid Y cables unless that's the only option. There can be worse sins in audio connection land but it's a possibility your system isn't capable of being optimized for unity gain given the connection/.circuit types, cables and architecture as you now have it configured. This is not that uncommon but isn't always addressed or recognized in home audio where measurement and correction of the signal level (gain) in absolute terms are not usually attempted by the user.

In pro systems, a 6dB loss of gain will be accompanied by gnashing of teeth and frantic searches for the reason why.

Excellent explanation.

(Regarding your last paragraph/sentence, you could substitute the word “pro” for “any”. I believe that is what the OP is going through now).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-02-2018, 06:18 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
Audiot
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nashville, TN.
Posts: 548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
Excellent explanation.

(Regarding your last paragraph/sentence, you could substitute the word “pro” for “any”. I believe that is what the OP is going through now).
True enough.
__________________
Lew
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2019 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase