QB-9 Upgrade

[Blackstone]

So I can expect a significant improvement if I upgrade to QB-9 USB DSD from an original 96KHz only version?

[ChrisAZ]

I hate to be a mope (and I often feel like a mope when asking questions), but if all the upgrade for the QB-9 is supposed to accomplish is adding DSD capability who does this help? I have a QB-9 that's been updated (subject to this upgrade) and as far as I know DSD is only available from SACD (maybe blu ray?) and most SACD players don't allow one to output the DSD to a separate DAC. I know there are hacks to do so, but I'd guess that those who avail themselves of such hacks are limited in number. Also, the QB-9 is USB only, so for me the only source that will work to feed it is a computer (in my case a Mac Mini) or a USB stick. Neither the Mac Mini nor my Mac Air can play SACDs and output DSD. Are any mainstream personal computers capable of doing so? Are any recordings in DSD being put on USB sticks? This all comes back to my original question, what is the utility of this upgrade for most QB-0 owners? Let the guffaws commence... ; )

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by ChrisAZ

I hate to be a mope (and I often feel like a mope when asking questions), but if all the upgrade for the QB-9 is supposed to accomplish is adding DSD capability who does this help? I have a QB-9 that's been updated (subject to this upgrade) and as far as I know DSD is only available from SACD (maybe blu ray?) and most SACD players don't allow one to output the DSD to a separate DAC. I know there are hacks to do so, but I'd guess that those who avail themselves of such hacks are limited in number. Also, the QB-9 is USB only, so for me the only source that will work to feed it is a computer (in my case a Mac Mini) or a USB stick. Neither the Mac Mini nor my Mac Air can play SACDs and output DSD. Are any mainstream personal computers capable of doing so? Are any recordings in DSD being put on USB sticks? This all comes back to my original question, what is the utility of this upgrade for most QB-0 owners? Let the guffaws commence... ; )

There are now a very few sites that allow you to download DSD tracks. The only source is no longer just the complicated method of having to find a old Sony Playstation and use programs to extract a DSD signal from SACD's. That method is the best source due to the number of SACD's available to choose from.

[mgbaron]

Originally Posted by ChrisAZ

I hate to be a mope (and I often feel like a mope when asking questions), but if all the upgrade for the QB-9 is supposed to accomplish is adding DSD capability who does this help? I have a QB-9 that's been updated (subject to this upgrade) and as far as I know DSD is only available from SACD (maybe blu ray?) and most SACD players don't allow one to output the DSD to a separate DAC. I know there are hacks to do so, but I'd guess that those who avail themselves of such hacks are limited in number. Also, the QB-9 is USB only, so for me the only source that will work to feed it is a computer (in my case a Mac Mini) or a USB stick. Neither the Mac Mini nor my Mac Air can play SACDs and output DSD. Are any mainstream personal computers capable of doing so? Are any recordings in DSD being put on USB sticks? This all comes back to my original question, what is the utility of this upgrade for most QB-0 owners? Let the guffaws commence... ; )

They are also changing the DAC chip to an ESS Sabre and are making other changes to the board. According to Charles from Ayre, is a much bigger improvement to the DAC than they expected. Read the full thread here:

Computer Audio Asylum

We've finished the DSD upgrade on the DX-5 and they are just starting to trickle out now. The problem is that the AX-5 integrated and the VX-5 power amp have been wildly successful and we need to hire more people to keep up with the back log there.

We will start shipping new QB-9-DSD's in the next month or so, as all crystals are pretty much custom-made parts with quite a long lead-time. We will also update older units for a reasonable price, but there are thousands of them out there and I expect the backlog to be pretty long. As Beetlemania posted, the details of the DX-5-DSD upgrade can be found at the link below. (You can skip the first half of that post as it doesn't apply to the QB-9.)

The QB-9 upgrade will be very similar, the only real difference being the clocks. We will change to a 3rd overtone crystal with lower phase-noise (ie, jitter), but not replace the entire clock module. Everything else will be pretty much the same as the changes to the DX-5-DSD.

The retail price of the new units will increase about 8% in the US. Upgrades for units bought within a certain period (we haven't decided how long yet) will receive courtesy pricing of just the difference between the old and new units. Older units will cost more to upgrade due to the amount of labor in them, I would guess around 15% (and possibly more). VERY EARLY units that are not 192 kHz capable will also require that upgrade as well, as the DoP feature requires 176.4/24 capability. (The distributor for each country sets their own pricing and warranty policies, so these will vary around the world.)

The only new feature will be the addition of handling DSD over PCM (DoP) files that some companies sell as downloads. The other changes improve the sonic performance. I was very happy with the sound of both units before the change. We thought we would try some new ideas as long as we were adding the DoP feature.

We had learned a few new tricks from designing the QA-9 A/D converter and also the AX-5 integrated amplifier. These by themselves made radical improvements that took me completely by surprise.

Then we tried the ESS DAC chip, which Gordon Rankin had been telling me was a huge step above the Burr-Brown. I figured there wouldn't be much difference as we are using very little of the original chip, with outboard digital filters and current-to-voltage converters. I was wrong. The ESS made *another* significant improvement.

I would honestly say that the performance of both units is twice as good. Obviously this is a completely capricious and arbitrary thing to say, but it's not like, "Oh, yes, that *is* a bit better" kind of thing. It's more of a "You've got to be kidding me! I had no idea that big of an improvement was even possible!" kind of thing.

The only downside is that due to the amount of labor involved in the upgrade, that the wait times will likely stretch out. We don't want to hire too many people right now as summer is traditionally the slow season for high-end audio. We are probably going to add one full time and one part time person to start with and do some reorganization of the production area to improve efficiency and through-put.

Also please remember that Ayre is not an "upgrade company". That is not our main profit center. We make our money on designing and building new equipment. We offer the upgrades as a courtesy simply because that is the way that we would like to be treated if the shoe were on the other foot. But we can't go out and hire ten people just to do upgrades. Please be patient. It's already a great product, so it's not like you have to suffer while you wait. But it will be worth waiting for.

The new units are easily recognizable as there is a "DSD" logo below the Ayre logo on the front panel. Thanks for your interest.

[ChrisAZ]

Originally Posted by mgbaron

They are also changing the DAC chip to an ESS Sabre and are making other changes to the board. According to Charles from Ayre, is a much bigger improvement to the DAC than they expected. Read the full thread here:

Computer Audio Asylum

Thanks! I've always found Mr. Hanson to be a straight shooter, so his description of the upgrades and their effect is very encouraging. Now I can't wait to get mine upgraded!

[jax4736]

If anyone gets their upgraded DX-5, please post your impressions here. Especially if you can compare to the C-5xeMP...

[Marduk]

Hi all,
This is my first post in this thread. I need advise on which input i should use to connect the QB9 to my ARC LS26 line stage. There are a number of inputs (tuner, phono, monitor, processor, video, aux1&2).
Thank you.
Richard

[doggiehowser]

I know Hansen may have a reputation of being a straight shooter but wow

Ayre wants $1.5K for DSD'ed QB-9 - Page 13

Hello Mav,

You are free to make up your own mind. It is clear that you already have. You have decided that I have cynically added DSD support just to make more money.

The truth is that (as I have also said before) DSD is very much like genital warts. Annoying and hard to get rid of, but in the big picture, not very serious of a problem.

For the first time, if somebody purchase a QA-9 Pro and a QB-9-DSD, they can hear quad-rate PCM and DSD implemented at the highest possible level. Then they can compare for themselves and see what sounds better. ALL variables are eliminated and it is the first time in history that a truly valid comparison between the formats can be made.

Once people do this, and they find out for themselves the truth -- that there is no inherent advantage to DSD, then maybe we can stop being distracted by this format that has so many practical disadvantages. Once we settle on a single high-res format, it will be much easier to create a group of buyers that is large enough to be meaningful. Then instead of listening to obscure recordings of obscure musical groups, we might reach a critical mass and have a good choice of good high-res software.

Cheers,

I'm curious why he would want anyone to pay him $1,500 to prove the customer is wrong? Could it be an issue with his implementation of DSD using Sabre32 and his DSP when dCS, EMM and Playback have demonstrated how well a native DSD built ground up can work? Even Esoteric does an amazing job with SACD/DSD using an off the shelf DAC chip.

[Manbient]

If you read that thread more closely, you'll see that the upgrade won't be $1500, but closer to $500 (or $750 for chumps like me with the 24/96 version )

Charles talks a lot in that thread about why he doesn't seem to like DSD. He does seem a little brash, but I agree that at the moment I have no interest in DSD. Most likely, offering the option of DSD playback from Ayre is a business decision. Occasionally you do have to pander to the crowd I suppose. Charles used to be pretty open with the notion that 24/192 isn't worth it since there's so little material available, but the QB-9 was still upgraded to use it. Not sure if he still feels that way now mind you.

Also, I think I will probably invest in this upgrade.

[asiufy]

From those words, it's clearly you're not getting DSD "at the highest possible level" from this man's gear. See elsewhere for that, like the other brands mentioned (plus MSB).


alexandre