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Shunyata Research Designing Silent Systems for recording, film and music

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  #11  
Old 05-30-2016, 09:08 PM
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Grant... thanks, great looking unit also.

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Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2016, 04:30 AM
Elberoth Elberoth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantS View Post
Hi Everyone,

My sincere apologies for the late reply. Between medical and audio-related travel, time has very scarce of late. We have installed our products for trial in a number of Electro-phyisiolgy labs since our initial success. The results have been remarkable. I will be positing the new information soon.

Yes, the Hydra Denali model's contain the new Filter technology Caelin designed for the medical industry. The measured isolation between outlets is quite extreme. I have included an attached measurement. There are 4 source/line-level outlets and 2 high-current outlets that incorporate technology originally designed into the Typhon. The form factor of the Towers along with the integrated base and detachable stainless-steel feet allow for ideal placement flexibility. The 6-outlet shelf mount Hydra Denali ($3995) is essentially the same internally as the 6-oulet Tower ($4995), but there is a difference in performance favoring the model 6000T (Tower)

The 2-outlet Hydra Denali 2000T ($2995) (pictured)is essentially a Typhon, but with outlets. You could consider it an extreme version of the 2-outlet Cyclops. Big price difference, but the performance is there. All units will be in Black faceplates initially. We felt they looked much better that way.

I will have some of these units on display in Newport, so if you are going, feel free to drop in. We will be in a number of rooms, including Vivid/Luxman and Stillpoins/Bob Hodas/Exemplar behind registration in the large Theater. Also, our dealer Shelley's will be running our system.

Best regards,
Grant
What is the difference between the Shunyata filter and comercially available filters from companies like Shurter, which seem to have similar attenuation properties at MUCH lower cost:

schurter.com/en/Components/EMC-Products/Single-Phase-Block-Filters/FSS

Last edited by jdandy; 05-31-2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: active link to non-sponsor seller against forum rules.
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2016, 10:56 AM
GrantS GrantS is offline
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If you are referring to the filter you copied the link to, that isn't part of a product such as a power distributor or power conditioner, so making any cost comparison is impossible. Obviously, there is more cost involved in designing a complete unit made up of many purpose-made parts than in costing out this or that filter. All filters are very different and perform differently outside of a listed noise spec. Ours are designed to have minimal in-line peak current resistance, yet maintain a substantial amount of outlet-outlet noise isolation.

The new filters Caelin designed have had well documented success in a number of Electrophysiology labs across the country, both objectively (measurement) and subjectively (imaging), so they have been rigorously performance tested.

Within the units we have designed for medical, and in Denali models, there are also Caelin's patented noise-isolation chambers, patent-pending QR-BB modules (developed for amplifier/ high-current components) and the Multi-Phase-Differential-Array filter board contained in our Gemini Protection Module. These are photo'd and described within the linked document below. I've also included an internal photo of the Denali 6000S, which is very close in its design to the new medical-grade units we are developing.

I've also attached our Parts, Materials and Concepts document, which explains our approach and lists/describes many of our exclusive parts, materials and patents. I've not had time yet to write updates that include the new filters Caelin designed for medical applications. Whether that translates to reasonable value in terms of performance for you, or others is a question for each person, company or medical lab. Everyone is free to compare and decide for themselves.

We will not have units available for the EU until Fall because they will be different in terms of their design and will likely come to market under a different name to distinguish their differences in design.

Regards,

Grant


Attached Images
File Type: jpg FullSizeRender.jpg (97.4 KB, 507 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf pwr_tech_201508_v14.pdf (7.74 MB, 49 views)

Last edited by jdandy; 05-31-2016 at 08:15 PM. Reason: enkarge photo
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2016, 05:49 PM
Elberoth Elberoth is offline
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Grant,

I'm asking, since the noise attenuation graph is the only one you posted.

So if that is the only objective of the filter networks you use, I'm only pointing out that similar, if not better performance can be achived at a fraction of the price. Afterall - those filters can be directly mounted in your mains subpanel, so they don't need an expensive box.

If your filters have other advantages over regular filters - dynamic current limiting springs to mind - why not to post a graph showing that ?

Further, I have no reason to doubt the effects your filters have on various medical equipment, but I'm wondering if those Electrophysiology labs have even tried regular filters on their AC lines, like the one I posted

Last edited by Elberoth; 05-31-2016 at 05:52 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2016, 07:05 PM
GrantS GrantS is offline
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I've posted a great deal of information beyond a noise graph. I believe you are aware this is more than just an "expensive box", but you are looking for an angle to argue that we make over-priced products, I get it. Your original question was the tell because it was totally out of context.

You have absolutely zero evidence that similar or better performance can be gained from another filter type of a completely different design. In what application, audio, video, medical, studio? Have you run these comparisons? I've no problem with you buying the Shurter device and attaching that to your panel if you believe that's the best way to go and is a panacea for noise.

I've linked internal photo's as well as a parts and concepts doc explaining how the products are made, what the design precepts are and a graph of the noise isolation. We publish enormous amounts of information about our parts and design approach.

As the products come to market there will be more information and measurement posted but they are not to market yet. I was asked a question above, which I answered with the detail I currently have available. Anything I reply to your queries will not be enough, its pretty clear where you are driving with all this.

The medical facilities I've visited have tried all manner of noise-isolation strategies, including iso-transformers, chokes, coils and multiple types of filters and noise solutions. The noise problems in the medical industry are not new and the possible solutions they've tried are many. Again, you'd have to take my word on that because I've been to over a dozen. I get the impression, that's not your game here and no answer is enough.

It's clear your questions are not genuine, which makes each reply difficult because it will be used to feed the whole inflated price-tag thing. You are wrong about that. Our products are fairly priced based on cost to build and parts. I'm off to Newport tomorrow. For anyone with legitimate questions, I will always make myself available in person or on the phone.

Grant
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2016, 07:50 PM
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Grant... consider the above issue solved!
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Ivan
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MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2016, 08:21 AM
Adyc Adyc is offline
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I have one Triton and three Typhon. You may have answered this question before. But how does Denali compare to Triton and Typhon in terms of audio performance?

It seems that Denali contain new filters which are absent in Triton and Typhon. For absolute performance where cost is not a concern, will you recommend Denali over Triton and Typhon?
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2016, 12:33 PM
GrantS GrantS is offline
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There are enough differences between these units and Triton or Typhon that I cannot give you an easy answer. If you are asking me whether you should replace the Triton or Typhon's with Denali's, I would say "no", because they are not intended to be a replacement, number one, and two, I have too little information on how they compare in a variety of contexts. The Denali's have been remarkable in my simple 3 component system consisting of a DCS Puccini and VAC or ARC amps. Beyond that, I'll wait along with everyone else to see how they fare in more complex systems. The true test is time on the market in a variety of systems. We've only had one or two working prototypes so we haven't done the amount of field research that we have with pre-production cables or power cords. Certainly, we will be asking Michael Fremer, Marc Mickelson and Robert Harley to listen as well and perhaps report their findings. They have more complex systems and have had all our reference products going back more than 10 years. For now, I'd wait along with the rest of us to see how the new units do. They should be shipping to dealers next week.

regards,

Grant
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2016, 01:39 PM
Mike1998 Mike1998 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantS View Post
There are enough differences between these units and Triton or Typhon that I cannot give you an easy answer. If you are asking me whether you should replace the Triton or Typhon's with Denali's, I would say "no", because they are not intended to be a replacement, number one, and two, I have too little information on how they compare in a variety of contexts. The Denali's have been remarkable in my simple 3 component system consisting of a DCS Puccini and VAC or ARC amps. Beyond that, I'll wait along with everyone else to see how they fare in more complex systems. The true test is time on the market in a variety of systems. We've only had one or two working prototypes so we haven't done the amount of field research that we have with pre-production cables or power cords. Certainly, we will be asking Michael Fremer, Marc Mickelson and Robert Harley to listen as well and perhaps report their findings. They have more complex systems and have had all our reference products going back more than 10 years. For now, I'd wait along with the rest of us to see how the new units do. They should be shipping to dealers next week. regards, Grant
Hi, under what circumstances would you choose a triton/typhoon over the Denali? Is this meant to be a midrange product?

Definitely looks interesting, curious to hear what people think of it once they are out in the wild...
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2016, 04:20 PM
GrantS GrantS is offline
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The Denali's are $2995 for the 2-outlet unit, $3995 for the 6 outlet shelf unit and $4995 for the 6 outlet Tower unit. The 6-outlet models are less expensive than the Triton ( 2 fewer outlets), but the two outlet is half again more than the Cyclops. My advice to those I speak with is to start by trying products below their budget, because often you will find all you require for great performance.

This is especially true with the Denali's at the higher end of the spectrum and the Venom line of products at the more affordable end of the price spectrum. Triton and Typhon are unapologetically expensive, so I always tell people who are not yet familiar with our products, even new dealers, to start more affordably and work up.

Up-selling is always short sighted. Getting people the right fit and best value wins hearts and minds in the long run. Caelin designs that way, as many here know, so the Denali's should be interesting products to watch. People may be surprised. We don't offer extreme-price (5 figure) cables or power products for a reason. We're certainly capable of making them.

Regards,

Grant

Last edited by GrantS; 06-01-2016 at 05:34 PM.
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