Has anyone made the leap from 802D3 to 800D3?

[GregGale]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Or room EQ.

Kal I am not sure what you mean by room EQ. My room is identical set up to before. My room is quite large 24 by 25 with 18 foot tall ceilings in which the 802D2's had more mid bass bloom.

I believe this maybe just the way the speaker is balanced. When you look at the frequency response curves the previous generation 802D2 it extended deeper and had a more pronounced low bass hump.

Like you had stated and JA confirmed, the bass is definitely on the overdamped side and is "free from underdamped boom". I also noticed in JA measurement the output from the flowport is significantly down in level versus the previous generation at the tuning frequency. This is most likely why the speaker is lighter balanced in this area.

I definitely agree I hear more definition in the bass and I believe the bass is probably more true to reality, but at present, I miss a bit of the mid bass bloom of the old D2. That is why I was asking about the possibility of this changing with additional break in time.

I have a Classe CA2300 amplifier and maybe that is one area I should experiment with as you mentioned the McIntosh leaned more toward the power.

Kal do you feel the bass on the new D3 goes as deep as the old D2 in your room? That may not be a fair question as you have the 800D2 and that should definitely have more bass output.

Overall I do love the speaker, it is just voiced completely different than the old D2 and I am adjusting to the new sound.

[Kal Rubinson]

First, I meant that room acoustics can affect different speakers differently. RoomEQ would make for a more level playing field.

Second, I prefer the bass with the 802D3 over that of the 800D2 because, although the latter was impressive, it could also be too much of an abiding feature. The 802D3 is one of those speakers where you are only aware of the bass when you should be. Since adopting the D3, I have stopped using the Mac and prefer other amps, particularly, the Sigma Monos.

While there is almost always a personal adjustment, I didn't need one for the D3; it was right from the beginning. Also, I listen mostly to orchestral, opera, etc. and I am sensitive to hearing detail in low instruments played in large groups.

[GregGale]

Thanks Kal for your response. I listen primarily to Classic Rock, Jazz and Blues and really like to crank up the volume on occasion.

One thing I have noticed with the D3's is they sound more detailed at lower volume levels than the D2's and I do find improvements in the midrange in particular the vocals and low level details that I can hear that I did not notice previously.

Were your speakers already broken in when you received them or were they right just out of the box? Do you feel speakers need some run in time to sound their best?

[krustycat]

GregGale,

You may have to move the speakers a little closer to the walls just to increase the bass response, as these speakers sound a bit different than the ones you replaced.

I love the better tonal balance of the D3 series so much, that I believe I am set for a few years on my current setup.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by GregGale

Were your speakers already broken in when you received them or were they right just out of the box?

I know they were checked out but believe that they were "broken in."

Do you feel speakers need some run in time to sound their best?

Not really. A few hours, maybe.

[GregGale]

Originally Posted by krustycat

GregGale,

You may have to move the speakers a little closer to the walls just to increase the bass response, as these speakers sound a bit different than the ones you replaced.

I love the better tonal balance of the D3 series so much, that I believe I am set for a few years on my current setup.

Positioning the speakers and moving them around is not easy but I played around and made some additional adjustments. it is amazing how toe in and rake angle adjustments can change the sound balance of the speaker. I toed out the speakers a bit more and tilted them forward (raised the back spikes higher) which is something Kal mentioned he did with his and then sat down with my wife for a serious listening session and put on George Benson which my wife loves.

We were both just in awe how much George Benson sounded like he was in the room with us. The quality of his voice was so palpable it was though you could reach out and touch him. There is some very deep bass in this recording and the tone of the bass was detailed to the extent I have not heard with the previous D2 and just better integrated into the musical whole. Previously I was drawn more towards the bass with the D2 and now I believe this part of the sound spectrum was over emphasized versus the midrange and treble.

When I asked my wife what she thought about the bass versus the old D2 on this recording she said, "she is very sensitive to too much bass, and that she like the new D3 much better". I think she has a better sense of sound quality than I do. Maybe it is true that women have a better sense of hearing than men.

The D3 allowed me to relax more into the music and just sit back and enjoy the performance rather than concentrate on what was coming out of the speaker. The other point that was interesting was that the notes came out of a blacker space allowing instruments to just suspend themselves separately in space creating a huge soundstage completely detached from the speaker.

One other quality of the D3 I noticed is I could push the volume level up higher than I could previously without the need to feel like I had to back off on the sound level. It was as though I could feed them unlimited power and they were sounding just totally natural and unforced. Previously on this record I had to back off on the volume as it became almost too much to handle. I think this is most likely a result of the speakers lower distortion levels and you are hearing less of the cabinet enclosures.

Now it make me dream about what more power could give me. The Classe CA2300 is rated at 300 watts per channel into 8 ohms doubling down at 600 into 4 ohms. I know Classe is coming out with a new Delta series with 350 watts per channel into 8 ohms but that does not seem like that much of a jump. I may want to try out the 450 watt per channel Mac.

At any rate, I am very happy now that I made some adjustments of the speaker position wise and realize now that my old D2's were maybe too pronounced in the mid bass which most likely obscured some of the bass details I was missing before.

[Kal Rubinson]

The Mac will soften and warm the bass a bit.

[Douglas]

Originally Posted by ariess

I nearly did! I had negotiated the price and trade in of my beloved 802D3 for the 800D3. I decided to invest in a home audition of the 800D3 (charge applied to the purchase of the 800D3 if all went well). I am glad I did the test. Whereas the bass on the 802D3 sounds fantastic in my room, the 800D3 did not. Granted, my room is not huge (12'x23')
and does not provide the flexibility to place the speakers in many places. The bass was so prodigious on the 800D3 that it swamped the room whenever certain frequencies were excited and hung around too long. I am sure in the right room and position the 800D3 could best the 802D3 (mostly in the bass). But the bass you hear is not what the speaker puts out but what your room+speaker allows. I would much rather have a speaker that plays well in the room then its big brother that does not. Interestingly, if you read the various reviews and auditions of people who have heard the 802D3 and 800D3, you will often hear some similar issues with the bass from the 800D3. Namely, there were troubles dialing it in, even in professionally built and treated rooms. Again, I don't doubt that the 800D3 can be superior. Just don't assume they will sound that way in your room, especially if that room is not very large and you don't have a lot of flexibility in positioning. I highly recommend an audition before you buy.

I just saw a review in Audiophile and the reviewer makes this same point about the 803D3. He writes
"They are superb loudspeakers. Where you'll do your research is in room synergy. Size matters. And B&W provides 8 models from which to choose in the 800 Series Diamond line, including a standmount, two centres and a sub. My guess is you'll be choosing the 803s for your medium to large room where it will fill it with the most musical sounds for many years. Like most of the Focal Utopias, Raidho loudspeakers and that magical Magico Q1, the 803 D3 is a lifetime speaker. "

This is a very good example of bigger is not always better. It is of paramount importance to match a speaker to the size of a room. Big speakers in a small almost always sound bad and inferior to their smaller siblings.

[joey_v]

Originally Posted by ariess

I nearly did! I had negotiated the price and trade in of my beloved 802D3 for the 800D3. I decided to invest in a home audition of the 800D3 (charge applied to the purchase of the 800D3 if all went well). I am glad I did the test. Whereas the bass on the 802D3 sounds fantastic in my room, the 800D3 did not. Granted, my room is not huge (12'x23')
and does not provide the flexibility to place the speakers in many places. The bass was so prodigious on the 800D3 that it swamped the room whenever certain frequencies were excited and hung around too long. I am sure in the right room and position the 800D3 could best the 802D3 (mostly in the bass). But the bass you hear is not what the speaker puts out but what your room+speaker allows. I would much rather have a speaker that plays well in the room then its big brother that does not. Interestingly, if you read the various reviews and auditions of people who have heard the 802D3 and 800D3, you will often hear some similar issues with the bass from the 800D3. Namely, there were troubles dialing it in, even in professionally built and treated rooms. Again, I don't doubt that the 800D3 can be superior. Just don't assume they will sound that way in your room, especially if that room is not very large and you don't have a lot of flexibility in positioning. I highly recommend an audition before you buy.

I just saw a review in Audiophile and the reviewer makes this same point about the 803D3. He writes
"They are superb loudspeakers. Where you'll do your research is in room synergy. Size matters. And B&W provides 8 models from which to choose in the 800 Series Diamond line, including a standmount, two centres and a sub. My guess is you'll be choosing the 803s for your medium to large room where it will fill it with the most musical sounds for many years. Like most of the Focal Utopias, Raidho loudspeakers and that magical Magico Q1, the 803 D3 is a lifetime speaker. "

Ariess,

How treated is your room? Can you post a pic so I have a better idea? Do you position the speakers on the long or short end and where is your seating position relative to the front wall?

[SX-626]

Yesterday I happened to be in a Magnolia and they had the 800d3s set up with McIntosh gear 601s/C52/MCT 450. I listened to parts of a CD and I was expecting WOW but it didn't sound that great to me at that time in that day as they had them set up. On the other hand, when I was at my audio dealer yesterday picking up a repair, he told me that they have sold 6 pairs of the 800D3s without having any to demo in their store. So...