Solid State Preamps Vs. Tube Preamps

[Grasshopper]

So the upgrade fairy keeps knocking on my door and I keep thinking the missing link in my chain is a proper preamplifier. I've considered a Mcintosh C48 (which would likely replace my DAC as well and become a "one-box" solution), or maybe a C2300. I've been impressed with the W4S Dac2 as a dac and even thought I should look at the W4S STP-SE which could be had for $1400 or so used. Either of these would be used with my DAC2.

This has me thinking, Solid State vs. Tube.

I really like a detailed sound, 3-D exaggerated soundstage, but i really like dynamics and bass slam. My layman's understanding of tube equipment is that it tends to smooth out the music, where solid state may make a harsher sound (on either extreme).

I thought I'd pose this question an see what other AA members have to say about solid state vs. tube, and their personal experience. Also, if any have direct experience with either of the preamps I've mentioned and how they compare, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[Alberto]

There is no simple answer. For my ears, with B&W speakers (very revealing), a bit of smoothing from a tube amps would be nice. On the other hand, since you have B&W you might like very revealing sound.

If you listen a lot (several hours a day) a small amount of edginess in the sound can become an issue - especially with some recordings. I listen a lot everyday, so I am all tubes.

Alberto

[Alki]

This is a very individualistic thing. When I first got into this hobby I purchased a SS pre. After a few years I upgraded to another SS pre but had not given a tube pre an audition / consideration.

When I finally gave a tube pre a listen the decision was quite easy for me to make the change. Doubt I will ever go back to a SS pre again.

To my ears the sound from a tube pre is what makes me happiest. I now find a SS pre to sound harsh.

Just give each a listen and pick what sounds best to you.

Happy shopping and keep us posted on what you select.

[Jerome W]

Imho you should not base your decision on a particular technology.
Although I'm a Shindo addict and I love tubes in general, I am not a tube fanatic. If it sounds better fine. If not, I go SS.
For example I preferred the C45 to my C220 even with NOS Telefunken tubes, and I preferred the C1000P over the T. I also preferred the C48 to the C2300 with stock tubes. I find the C48 warmer and punchier and more musical !
If the music played by a given unit speaks to your soul, why do you care if it is tube or SS ?
There are great products in both technology.

[1KW]

I'm using a C2300 with solid state MC501 amps and have no listener fatigue. On the other hand when I used my mcd500 as my pre amp with the same amps I never listened for more than 1 cd or lp at a time. Now I can listen for 5-6 hours at a time

[prepress]

From a semi-audiophile's perspective: I have a C2300, and coming from years of an ARC LS3 (solid state) I was disappointed with the sound in that it lacked the dynamics I was used to. The mid and high frequencies were great, more open, but the lighter bottom end proved to be a distraction. I replaced the stock tubes with Amperex NOS and that helped, but didn't solve the problem. There are JJ ECC083s tubes there now which need perhaps another 10-15 hours to be considered broken in, but my sense is that I'm close to what I'll be getting out of them. Last night watching Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's on DVD, I was actually beginning to consider trading in or selling the 2300 for something else, probably a C48.

Then the idea struck to try the tone controls. So I went into the menu and turned the bass up from 0 to 2dB (the range is +/- 12dB). BIG CHANGE. Things filled in, weight increased, and with no apparent effect on the mids or highs. On to Yes Live at Montreaux. Same thing. Things sounded like what I get from my ARC LS3, except more open mids. After the tubes have settled in more and I've tried various sources, I'll see what's what. The preamp I really wanted, the VTL TL-6.5 Signature, is out of my price range. It's a hybrid, with 2 tubes in the line stage and a solid-state power supply.

That being the case, if I were to move on from the 2300 (still not impossible, but less likely for now), it would be back to solid state, because I think the 2300 experiment has shown me how much I value dynamics.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by prepress

From a semi-audiophile's perspective: I have a C2300, and coming from years of an ARC LS3 (solid state) I was disappointed with the sound in that it lacked the dynamics I was used to. The mid and high frequencies were great, more open, but the lighter bottom end proved to be a distraction. I replaced the stock tubes with Amperex NOS and that helped, but didn't solve the problem. There are JJ ECC083s tubes there now which need perhaps another 10-15 hours to be considered broken in, but my sense is that I'm close to what I'll be getting out of them. Last night watching Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's on DVD, I was actually beginning to consider trading in or selling the 2300 for something else, probably a C48.

Then the idea struck to try the tone controls. So I went into the menu and turned the bass up from 0 to 2dB (the range is +/- 12dB). BIG CHANGE. Things filled in, weight increased, and with no apparent effect on the mids or highs. On to Yes Live at Montreaux. Same thing. Things sounded like what I get from my ARC LS3, except more open mids. After the tubes have settled in more and I've tried various sources, I'll see what's what. The preamp I really wanted, the VTL TL-6.5 Signature, is out of my price range. It's a hybrid, with 2 tubes in the line stage and a solid-state power supply.

That being the case, if I were to move on from the 2300 (still not impossible, but less likely for now), it would be back to solid state, because I think the 2300 experiment has shown me how much I value dynamics.

Thanks for the feedback. That is precisely my concern. I love the smooth sound of tubes, but I worry it will come at the expense of dynamics and detail.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Alberto

There is no simple answer. For my ears, with B&W speakers (very revealing), a bit of smoothing from a tube amps would be nice. On the other hand, since you have B&W you might like very revealing sound.

If you listen a lot (several hours a day) a small amount of edginess in the sound can become an issue - especially with some recordings. I listen a lot everyday, so I am all tubes.

Alberto

Thanks for the feedback.

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Alki

This is a very individualistic thing. When I first got into this hobby I purchased a SS pre. After a few years I upgraded to another SS pre but had not given a tube pre an audition / consideration.

When I finally gave a tube pre a listen the decision was quite easy for me to make the change. Doubt I will ever go back to a SS pre again.

To my ears the sound from a tube pre is what makes me happiest. I now find a SS pre to sound harsh.

Just give each a listen and pick what sounds best to you.

Happy shopping and keep us posted on what you select.

I will keep you posted. My brain is telling me to lean towards a tube pre. The other 1/2 of my brain wants the C48.

I heard the D100 in my system as a solid state DAC/Pre, and I quite liked the sound (in hindsight. I thought it was a subtle upgrade at the time, but looking back it smoothed things out "enough").

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Imho you should not base your decision on a particular technology.
Although I'm a Shindo addict and I love tubes in general, I am not a tube fanatic. If it sounds better fine. If not, I go SS.
For example I preferred the C45 to my C220 even with NOS Telefunken tubes, and I preferred the C1000P over the T. I also preferred the C48 to the C2300 with stock tubes. I find the C48 warmer and punchier and more musical !
If the music played by a given unit speaks to your soul, why do you care if it is tube or SS ?
There are great products in both technology.

Good post! My system sounds great as it is, but I am missing the piece where it speaks to my soul. I do need to demo the C48, it's just tough to do as the "local" shop is still pretty far away. I also feel a little bad demoing a new piece, since I'd probably end up looking for a pre-owned one elsewhere.

Hearing others experiences is very helpful. Thank you.