Bryston SP3 Preamp-Processor

[SoThere]

Halloo, gents:

I heard from Stan, SP3 software guru at Bryston, regarding enabling the surround mode bypass option for 7.1 discussed in my post 486 above. Here are his key points:

1. The option used to be enabled in very old versions of the firmware.
2. It is reenabled in the current firmware test release (not yet available, as it's not yet fully tested).
3. They took it out because they thought, "who may ever want to do 5.1 if they have 7.1 speakers?" Little did we know . . .

So . . . it looks like the option will return. Stan is the man!

Little knowing and knowing little,

Rich
_________________
Whiney Napa Valley

[Stefan_DR3]

I sometimes use the NONE mode with my Anthem for 5.1 music but always use PLIIx for movies.

[SoThere]

Interesting, Stefan:

Which firmware version do you have? I'm running 2012.12 and don't have the none option in my surround modes.

The SP3 does sound glorious.

Rich
_______________
Whiney Napa Valley

The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130

[Stefan_DR3]

Sorry Rich. I should have clarified that is with my Anthem processor. I do not have an SP3.

What angles from the front of the room are your side speakers positioned at? According to Dolby and DTS the correct angles are 90 degrees for a 7.1 setup and 110 degrees for a 5.1 setup (since there are no rears in the latter). Modern soundtracks are mixed assuming this layout, so when you play them back the internal mapping functions of the surround processor and your physical speaker positions should all match. When playing 5.1 content on a 7.1 system you will not get the correct rear soundstage intended by the mixer, unless you engage one of the Dolby or DTS surround modes to expand it to 7.1.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/

As I mentioned earlier when playing older music recordings which I feel already have enough "fake surround" in the mix, I reserve the right to play it in straight-up 5.1 without adding any more fake channels but that is a subjective call. Many people just use PLIIx all the time and don't think twice about it, which is the safest thing to do - assuming there are no implementation bugs in the internal mapping functions of your processor (don't laugh, it happens, especially with DTS).

Note that DTS has some confusing "remapping" rules because of this. If the processor is configured for a 7.1 setup and you try to play a DTS-HDMA 5.1 source with the mode set to NONE, the mapping function of the surround processor is required to duplicate the side channel information in the rear speakers to shift the soundstage back to where the mixer intended. The catch is the standard actually allows the mixer to employ DIFFERENT surround positions other than 110 degrees and embed a corresponding flag in the metadata. The problem is nobody uses these flags consistently, so the guys implementing the software on the other end (like Stan) are forced to make a compromise. Some follow the DTS rules and implement the remapping with an assumed 90-degree side speaker placement, however most simply ignore it (at risk of losing DTS certification I might add). The Cadillac solution would be to allow the user to enter the side speaker position in degrees from the front of the room, but this still wouldn't account for incorrectly flagged source material.

It will be interesting to see what Bryston does when the surround mode is set to NONE... Will they provide a side speaker position parameter? Will they implement the DTS remapping so that you hear sound coming from the rear speakers or will they be silent?

[SoThere]

Yes, Stefan, I do have the surround speakers (Paradigm Reference Signature ADP dipoles) at 90 degrees from the listening position, and direct-radiating speakers (Paradigm Reference Signature S4s) for the rears. One of the great features for me of the SP3 is the ability to set different speaker configurations for different inputs. I very much appreciate the thinking of Bryston SP3 guru Stan Bleszynski on this option.

For example, I have a 7.1 system for movies. For multichannel music (SACDs and DVD-As), I can switch out the surround speakers and have FL/C/FR and LR/RR speakers, thus having direct radiating rear speakers.

Gbaby is very happy with his SP3's surround modes, and I haven't had a chance to try these yet. My immediate interest is in a 5.1 pass-through option for a 7.1 speaker configuration, so I don't have to reconfigure speaker settings. Yet, this is a minor inconvenience, since there aren't that many 7.1 discs out there.

Your points on mapping and remapping, and on speaker positioning, are extremely cogent. Bryston includes in the SP3 manual a 7.1 surround speaker placement guide, showing LF/RF at 26 degrees from center, LS/RS at 100 degrees, and LB/RB at 143 degrees. I can't move my surrounds, since they're placed on the wall, but our front and rear speakers meet these recommendations.

I'll have to ask Stan as to the effects of the surround mode being set to pass-through (since the SP3 does not have none as an option); my guess is that it will just pass the 5.1 incoming stream to the apt speakers and the rears will be silent. You certainly raise some interesting questions.

Thanks again for your thoughtful post, Stefan. I'll share what I hear from Stan.

Rich
___________________
Whiney Napa Valley

[James Tanner - Bryston]

Trumendous

Bryston SP3 - cracking piece of kit!

I am new to this forum, but recently purchased and installed an SP3, 9B, Oppo 105 and REL T-9.

This was an equipment refresh having moved away from Anthem Statement AMP and Preamp, Denon DVD 5000 and M&K. I kept my SR cabling and B&W's. The enthusiasm, and constant input from Stan, James and everyone on this board is what made me switch.

I can say the sonic differences and characteristics off my entire music library has been a delight to re-listen to.

After 3 weeks of listening, all I can say is just WOW!

Thanks everyone.

tru

[rbuteau]

The unit still sound great!

However there is still one issues that bother me on day to day basis.
I am still experiencing 2-3 audio drop out each time I start a new HDMI source (blu ray player, HTPC, or SACD), it last about 10-20 seconds. If I try the same through analog there is no problem.
I would like to know if I am only one to hear and experience this problem? and If not is there an ETA for this problem to get fixed?

[DRC2]

I have a question for all SP3 owners that have used their SP3 in 2 channel bypass and feeding it an analogue signal from a phono preamp. I have identified an issue that has been confirmed by Bryston and will be corrected. Unfortunately in my case it was a little late because I blew a driver in my Usher's.
The issue is a large transient "popping" when the SP3 receives a signal from a phono stage that might be higher than 2 volts. Although the SP3 is supposed to be able to accept up to 4 volts in 2 channel bypass it has an issue in handling anything approaching its maximum.
The suggested work around is to run in "stereo" versus 2 channel bypass. "Stereo" is not 2 channel bypass and does not sound anywhere close to pure analogue 2 channel bypass.
In my case I have a an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze with a .4 mV output. It feeds either an EAR 834P or a Parasound JC3. Each has a 68 dB gain for MC. At 1000 hz this would produce a 1 volt signal.
I have had the EAR for over 10 years. In fact I had the same front end going into an SP1.7 before the SP3 as well as Proceed, Levinson, Arcam etc and never had an issue.
I have had the SP3 since December 2011 and posted many rave reviews including one on this forum. I did not experience this issue for the first 6 months. In fact for the first few months I was trying to find the source of my loud transient popping I ruled out the SP3 and looked at everything else in the signal chain. It was only when I sent the SP3 back to Bryston that we confirmed this is an issue with the SP3 in 2 channel bypass. I sent the EAR to them and they used it on other SP3's in stock and had the same result. Although they said the gain in the EAR was high they did confirm that the SP3 should not behave they way it does.
When I went back and looked at all the published reviews from Stereophile, Widescreen Review, Home Cinema Choice, Inner Ear none of them used the SP3 with a phono based source. Only Home Theater (Fred Manteghiam) tested with a phono front end. The review did not mention any details on the source components.
This is why I am reaching out to other SP3 owners that have a phono front end to see if anyone else has experienced this symptom.

Thanks

[Masterlu]

DRC2... Welcome!

[DRC2]

Hi
What gain do you have your Rhea Sig set at for your 2 cartridges?
What about your other analogue front ends? I noticed you have a VPI and another Clearaudio.