AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > The Lounge > General Off Topic

General Off Topic Almost anything goes!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-15-2017, 09:49 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default Cryptocurrencies

Any Bitcoin owners among us?

I recall when I first read about it some years ago it caught my eye and I gave it some thought but decided against it then as it seemed like some kind of a scam to me more than an investment.

Of course with $1,200 spent on some 480,000 bitcoins, the investor would be worth at least $1.1 billion today... Over the course of seven years, bitcoin’s value has multiplied 879,999 times over since 2010. WOW... Imagine if we invested some of the "audio money" that many of us spent over the years into the Bitcoin!

I do believe many more are paying attention to it today than 7 years ago. It has also been highly volatile over the past year and has also skyrocketed! With all the geopolitical turmoil going, it's no wonder but it may also be a huge bubble ready to pop since people are rushing in to capture the upside.

It does offer some kind of a safety net over the possible implosions of most countries' FIAT money systems where the currency is only as good as the faith in the government that issues it, like our dollar for example since we are not on the gold standard since the Nixon era and our money is not convertible to anything anymore.

It's all just paper after all and in times of crisis it can become worthless overnight. History has shown us examples of that. Weimar Republic Mark Hyperinflation, the Zimbabwe 100 Trillion dollar bills, where a loaf of bread costs a 300 billion dollars today... and there are many more. History does tend to repeat itself. Will the cryptocurrencies offer some safety net against the dark times?


What are your thoughts on it?


__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:01 PM
krustycat's Avatar
krustycat krustycat is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 734
Default

I'll rather have gold and diamonds for when we get hit with an EMP.
__________________
Mike -- B&W 802 D3 x 2, HTM1 D3, CM10 x 2, JL Audio F113 v2, SVS PB-12 Plus for LFE rear, McIntosh C2500 Tungsram ECC83/12AX7 NOS 1971 Hungary, McIntosh MC601 x 2, MC8207, MEN220, Esoteric K-03x, CAPS v4 Pipeline, NAS: Synology, WireWorld Silver El. 7 2.0m x 3, Silver Ec. 7 1.5m x 2, Platinum St. 7 USB 1.0m, Marantz AV8802a, 4 dedicated 20 A lines with Cruzefirstaudio Maestro Outlets. Primacoustic London 16 | Acoustic Panel Room Kit.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:13 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by krustycat View Post
I'll rather have gold and diamonds for when we get hit with an EMP.
Well, I can sort of understand the gold but how do you imagine paying with diamonds?

What's the going price of that pumpernickel loaf of bread today?
.25 carats? Princess cut and at least WS1 clarity?
Sorry, I only have the Oval cut and FL clarity....
Well... for that you can only get the sesame seed loaf....
__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:15 PM
Karl Maga Karl Maga is online now
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 303
Default

The appropriate breadth and depth of points to consider are prodigious if trying to discuss this thoroughly. However, more generally, I see evidence that Bitcoin will be around long enough to be considered a legitimate currency. Consider what Tama Churchouse (a crypto currency “expert“) has to say about Bitcoin: “...characteristics of money. Money is portable, durable, divisible, scarce, uniform, and accepted. And I'll just run through those briefly.
... Portability means: can you carry it around, and can you transfer it? With bitcoin, absolutely. You can transfer it at the push of a button. You can transfer it from a mobile phone to the other side of the world in moments. So yes, it's portable.

The bitcoin blockchain ledger is absolutely durable. Hackers have tried everything to bring it down, all without success so far. And bitcoin's divisible. One bitcoin is divisible all the way down to eight decimal places.

It's also scarce. Central banks continue to print money out of thin air. That's why currencies around the world collapse time and time again. But only 21 million bitcoins will ever be mined. And only 16.5 million are in circulation today. Nobody can simply "print" more bitcoins. With a finite and known supply, it's certainly scarce. And of course, it's uniform. One bitcoin is the same as another.

The only place where bitcoins don't hold up as real money compared with the U.S. dollar is acceptability. Bitcoin's acceptability in day-to-day merchant activity is not high yet. But in Japan, for example, merchants have already begun to accept bitcoin as a form of payment. So that's changing.“.

He goes on to explain that Bitcoin can be deposited into a digital wallet, which in turn may issue a plastic cash card which can be used at a Point Of Sale, thereby addressing some of the portability limitation.

It appears to have real legs.
__________________
Revel Ultima Salon2's, Voice2, Studio2's, Mark Levinson No. 536 (2) and No. 523, Bel Canto 2.7 and REFStream, Marantz TT-15S1 with Ortofon Cadenza Black cart, ATI Signature 6007, Marantz 7704, JVC DLA-RS500U, Silver Ticket STR-169120, WW Gold Eclipse 6 IC's, WW Silver Eclipse 6 IC's, WW Platinum 6 AES

Last edited by Karl Maga; 10-15-2017 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:26 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
The appropriate breadth and depth of points to consider are prodigious if trying to discuss this thoroughly. However, more generally, I see evidence that Bitcoin will be around long enough to be considered a legitimate currency. Consider what Tama Churchouse (a crypto currency “expert“) has to say about Bitcoin: “...characteristics of money. Money is portable, durable, divisible, scarce, uniform, and accepted. And I'll just run through those briefly.
... Portability means: can you carry it around, and can you transfer it? With bitcoin, absolutely. You can transfer it at the push of a button. You can transfer it from a mobile phone to the other side of the world in moments. So yes, it's portable.

The bitcoin blockchain ledger is absolutely durable. Hackers have tried everything to bring it down, all without success so far. And bitcoin's divisible. One bitcoin is divisible all the way down to eight decimal places.

It's also scarce. Central banks continue to print money out of thin air. That's why currencies around the world collapse time and time again. But only 21 million bitcoins will ever be mined. And only 16.5 million are in circulation today. Nobody can simply "print" more bitcoins. With a finite and known supply, it's certainly scarce. And of course, it's uniform. One bitcoin is the same as another.

The only place where bitcoins don't hold up as real money compared with the U.S. dollar is acceptability. Bitcoin's acceptability in day-to-day merchant activity is not high yet. But in Japan, for example, merchants have already begun to accept bitcoin as a form of payment. So that's changing.“.

He goes on to explain that Bitcoin can be deposited into a digital wallet, which in turn may issue a plastic cash card which can be used at a Point Of Sale, thereby addressing some of the portability limitation.

It appears to have real legs.
I agree with that assessment. There are at least 25 legitimate Bitcoin dealers in the US. The list of companies that accept Bitcoin in the US is growing but is probably only in the hundreds so far. The only downside seems to be the volatility.
__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:39 PM
Karl Maga Karl Maga is online now
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
I agree with that assessment. There are at least 25 legitimate Bitcoin dealers in the US. The list of companies that accept Bitcoin in the US is growing but is probably only in the hundreds so far. The only downside seems to be the volatility.
I believe you have nailed the crux: volatility. I intend to take a position in Bitcoin, and will manage the risk by factoring in volatility. It will be a relatively small, speculative position.
__________________
Revel Ultima Salon2's, Voice2, Studio2's, Mark Levinson No. 536 (2) and No. 523, Bel Canto 2.7 and REFStream, Marantz TT-15S1 with Ortofon Cadenza Black cart, ATI Signature 6007, Marantz 7704, JVC DLA-RS500U, Silver Ticket STR-169120, WW Gold Eclipse 6 IC's, WW Silver Eclipse 6 IC's, WW Platinum 6 AES

Last edited by Karl Maga; 10-15-2017 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:45 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
I believe you have nailed the crux: volatility. I intend to take a position in Bitcoin, and will manage the risk by factoring in volatility. It will be a relatively small, speculative position.
Good luck!
__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:48 PM
crwilli's Avatar
crwilli crwilli is online now
Racing Hoopties


 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bluffton SC
Posts: 6,480
Default

What drives the market for Bitcoins? Is there any inherent value in the ‘bits’?

I just don’t get it.
__________________
[SIZE="1"][I]Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JLAudio F113v2, McIntosh MC2301s with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric G-02, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), Other - GIK kit, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Platinum Starlight 7 USB, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, PS Audio P10 & Dectet, 3 Sound Anchor stands, Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, {McIntosh MX-121 - in for Repairs}, Lexicon MC1 out of retirement, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:03 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
What drives the market for Bitcoins? Is there any inherent value in the ‘bits’?

I just don’t get it.
There is no inherent value in the bits just like there in no inherent value in the paper money that is not convertible into anything precious. The government does not back your money with anything other than a promise it will do the best it can to keep the country and the economy stable. It's good today but may be worth much less tomorrow. Dollar has lost 93% of it's value since 1913.... We call that inflation and it seems like that's the norm but when the Government and the Central Bank are in cahoots, is it really???

Even gold is speculative, there is demand and there is supply but the price of gold today may be very different tomorrow if say a huge deposit of it is found somewhere that is easily mineable. As far as bitcoin this article explains it pretty well. https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/affects-bitcoin-price/
__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:31 PM
PHC1's Avatar
PHC1 PHC1 is online now
It's not just the music!

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pa
Posts: 16,799
Default

Gold is an interesting topic in itself. Gold has no intrinsic value other than the value people attach to it. There are elements and metals much rarer than gold such as Platinum and Palladium for example. Over the centuries people have been attracted to gold because it does not rust, it is a pretty yellow color, it can be melted easy and it is easy enough to make coins out of it. So why is it more expensive than Platinum and Palladium.

All the Platinum ever mined can fit into your living room! The problem is that the precious metal must be rare to have value but no so rare that you could not make enough coins to circulate... So other than people being attracted to gold in the form of jewelry and coins and governments hoarding it, while it obviously has value, it is really not intrinsically valuable.
__________________
Serge

Main System:


Amplification: Luxman L-590AX Mark II.
Luxman D-06u SACD.
Roon/Tidal.
Bryston BDP-Pi

PrimaLuna Dialogue HP EL34

Speakers: Harbeth 30.2 40th Anniversary




Headphones:

ZMF Auteur Blackwood, Audeze LCD-3, Audeze LCD-2C, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, Fostex TH-X00EB, E-MU Teak

Headphone Amplification: SPL Phonitor 2730, Audeze Deckard, PrimaLuna Dialogue HP, Luxman L-590AX Mark II, Woo Audio WA6

Source/DAC. Roon/Tidal.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 PM.

Follow @AudioAficionado
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2017 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Fortress
Fortress
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Audeze
Audeze
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Acoustic Sciences Corportation
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase