Have we all been duped??

[damacman]

Science is no friend of audio as it governs all aspects of our hobby. A signal between two points can certainly be different and the difference with respect to the original is distortion. Therein lies the rub with cable discussions. I prefer this distortion vs that distortion.

In addition, science calls for repeatability in an effort to draw a conclusion. So, if the new power cord on an amplifier has a tangible result in sound quality, could we then use the same power cord on a toaster and get better tasting toast?

What I find most interesting about the debate is that subjectivity is embraced and scientific discussion rebuked.

[PHC1]

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by damacman

Science is no friend of audio as it governs all aspects of our hobby. A signal between two points can certainly be different and the difference with respect to the original is distortion. Therein lies the rub with cable discussions. I prefer this distortion vs that distortion.

In addition, science calls for repeatability in an effort to draw a conclusion. So, if the new power cord on an amplifier has a tangible result in sound quality, could we then use the same power cord on a toaster and get better tasting toast?

What I find most interesting about the debate is that subjectivity is embraced and scientific discussion rebuked.

The whole point of the video to understand that the DIFFERENCE between the cables was amplified many times over and came back as silence or background hum at best.. There was NO DIFFERENCE.

That's all there is too it. Now, it would have been interesting to keep going and testing the UBER cables but I don't think anyone wants to play that game...

[PHC1]

My solution to this whole dilemma was to simply plumb my system with “quality” but “reasonably” priced level of cables. It has been a satisfying compromise. No harm no foul one way or the other.

[Poppyhome]

Originally Posted by Antonmb

Because most of pro audio is in it to make money, not great sound, and produces compressed recordings with poor sound targeted at 256-320kbps streaming.

That would then mean pro audio uses low quality cheap recording equipment, mixers, mics, amps, etc.

Or, is it that the pro audio industry uses well made regular wires because there is no real difference.

Ron

[PHC1]

Let’s not forget that some cable manufacturers simply source the cables from the same sources as the pro audio folks do but add a fancy jacket and a trinket or two at multiples of the price.

[Poppyhome]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Let’s not forget that some cable manufacturers simply source the cables from the same sources as the pro audio folks do but add a fancy jacket and a trinket or two at multiples of the price.

Ron

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by PHC1

My solution to this whole dilemma was to simply plumb my system with “quality” but “reasonably” priced level of cables. It has been a satisfying compromise. No harm no foul one way or the other.

What happened when you were a huge fan of, and owned expensive Transparent Cables.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

What happened when you were a huge fan of, and owned expensive Transparent Cables.

I’ve “visited” both camps and schools of thought. Starting from a skeptic, to experiencing nirvana among the Uber cables, then having my doubts, confirming my doubts to finally letting it all go and settling down with a mix of cables from WireWorld and Transparent but nothing even remotely “expensive” (by audiophile standards at least) anymore. I’m good now.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by jzzmusician

I kept waiting for him to explain why cables sound different but he never did.

first off not all cables sound different but for those that do it is traced back to inductance, capacitance and or resistance which me mentions at about 2'20" into the video.

Originally Posted by PHC1

Good video Greg.

I applaud his enthusiasm and the effort of building the equipment to prove whether there is or there is not a difference using the Null method. He seems like a very rational, knowledgeable and enthusiastic audiophile and a professional audio engineer.

Pretty sure most of us are aware that cables have never been successfully tested by any scientific instrument or method to prove once and for all they can make a difference, at least not in any way, shape or form that would actually apply to the audio band frequencies or parameters that would indicate it would be audible and relevant to our systems. The Null test only confirms the fact that even if there is a difference due to resistance, capacitance or inductance of a cable, it would be way below the audible threshold of a human ear.

At the end of the day it all boils down to only one thing. If one "believes" he should be hearing a difference, a difference will be heard. It is human nature. For the same reason that there is always a "placebo" group that has spontaneous healing because they "believe" they are getting the medication and a cure for their ailment. Science is aware of that fact hence there is typically a placebo group included in trials.

When faced with the task of a blind test, no one can hear a difference and be 100% right all the time, hence the 50/50 results which are the norm and confirms statistical "guess" at best.

Now, unbox an Uber expensive cable, insert into a system and the first few moments may be those uncomfortable moments of hesitation and doubt which will quickly fade as the ears start to convince otherwise... Listen some more, log into your favorite audio forum and be forever convinced that your doubt about the Uber cable purchase is unwarranted. The cable needed a "settling" and a "break in" period, that John, Ed, Joe and Stewart have indeed heard a difference and it wasn't trivial. Confirmation!

So what just happened? Did science just fail us? Nope, it didn't, it is all perfectly normal, science did tell us there is such a thing as "psychoacoutic effect" as well as showing us there is no significant enough difference in cables that matters.

Let's not ignore the fact that the "imagined" difference because it is expected to be there is just as "real" to our ears and brains.

We choose to go on with the "mystical aspect" instead and the most important part as any cable manufacturer knows all too well, is the "getting the people to believe" part. Hence the fancy marketing.


So in the end, I think it is best not to try to convince each other either way. It is a personal choice after all. If folks hear a difference and believe in the difference, even if it is not measurable or confirmed by science, so be it. The cables may not hold up to scrutiny of science but they sure generate lots of interest, wonder, expectations, expenditure and satisfaction. We are human after all.

well put Serge ....