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  #1  
Old 06-02-2017, 01:57 PM
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Doug Lax Doug Lax is online now
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Thumbs up 8802a w/SACD

With my oppo 203 and 8802a have really made my SACD shine. I did a side by side test with Getz Gilberto on CD and SACD on my old rig and noticed no difference.

with the new units in place it was daylight and dark. Im thinking it is the DACs in the 8802a ?????
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Marantz( UD8004,AV8802a ), Oppo udp 203 JLAudio Fathom F-110, B&W( 802 series III , FCMS8, SCMS8) . WireWorld Eclipse 6 xlr(7) Sliver Eclipse 5.2 HDMI (3) electra 5.2 powercords . HRS Nimbus , lg 55 Oled Nvidia Shield PS Audio PPP



System 2 Panasonic G25 Marantz av8003
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  #2  
Old 06-02-2017, 04:26 PM
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The DACs in the Marantz are very good indeed Doug.
Do you play in Pure Direct Mode?

I just did the test: Marantz as DAC/Pre against my Halgorythme pre/Burmester DAC, and the gap is not extremely wide (there is a noticeable difference though).
Source was my cable TV box (I guess 192kpbs, maybe 256).
With CDs it is more audible.

But SACDs offer me 5 channels.
It is a choice between extremely high fidelity from 2 channels or very high fidelity from 5 channels.
What I play depends on the music genre.
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AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E
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  #3  
Old 06-02-2017, 06:47 PM
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Yes
Roxy Music Avalon in SACD IS GREAT 5 channel
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Marantz( UD8004,AV8802a ), Oppo udp 203 JLAudio Fathom F-110, B&W( 802 series III , FCMS8, SCMS8) . WireWorld Eclipse 6 xlr(7) Sliver Eclipse 5.2 HDMI (3) electra 5.2 powercords . HRS Nimbus , lg 55 Oled Nvidia Shield PS Audio PPP



System 2 Panasonic G25 Marantz av8003
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2020, 05:20 AM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Hi there,

I know this is a three year old thread but am curious if the DAC in the Marantz AV8802 decodes and supports native DSD format over HDMI, or if you convert the DSD to PCM first in the Oppo and output it over HDMI when playing SACD. Cause some older AV preamp processors' DACs like those of my Classe SSP 800 does not decode or support DSD, the DAC in the Classe only supports high rez PCM & high rez LPCM. Cause Classe claimed and believed that SACD (DSD) would be best outputted using the players' analog audio out in order to get the best sound. I know your Oppo 203 probably wouldn't be an ideal player to play SACD or CD or DVD-Audio discs using the analog audio out since this player isn't optimized for that. The Oppo 205 would be a better choice for playing music using the analog audio out, or even better some high end dedicated stereo audio only CD/SACD players like those from Esoteric, DCS, Meridian, Cary Audio, EMM Labs, Ayre, etc. Or if you want a true high end universal disc player that will sound superb for playing music (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio) using its analog audio out will be the Ayre DX-5 universal disc player/USB DAC but was/is very expensive. Even today a used Ayre DX-5 would still sell for around $3500 in used after markets. Its original retail price was $10k or $12k for the revised DSD version which was released after the original DX-5. This machine plays CD/HDCD, SACD, DVD-Audio, DVD Video & bluray discs. While the video section of the Ayre DX-5 might be somewhat outdated a little but it is by far the best sounding universal disc player by wide margins when using the analog audio out (stereo XLR balanced) of the player for CD, SACD & DVD-Audio playbacks as well as when used as USB DAC. Actually the Ayre DX-5 sounded better when used as USB DAC for playing stereo music than using discs.
This player is meant to be set up in a hybrid high end two channel rig using a high end analog preamp/amp combo or a high end analog stereo integrated amp and a high end AV separates (high end AV pre pro / amp combo) for playing bluray movies.

In my dedicated family room / HT room setup I use my Oppo 105 for bluray and DVD-Audio (high resolution audio disc) playbacks using HDMI out to my Classe SSP 800 AV preamp processor and the sound is superb, but I don't play CD or SACD in this setup. I have a separate dedicated two channel setup for stereo CD & SACD playbacks using the Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player into the Classe Omega Reference Mk iii linestage stereo analog preamp and the Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps.

However, I've heard that the Marantz AV8802 processor is great for movies especially for the money but not sure how it performs for stereo music or when used as a stereo preamp.
Doug Lax, what power amp(s) are you using right now? I noticed you have the B&W 802 D3 for your main front speakers. In my dedicated two channel setup I have the 800 D3 driven by the Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps. The latest 800 series D3 are clear step up sonically from the D2 series IMO.

Last edited by Dilettante; 08-10-2020 at 02:41 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2020, 09:00 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
I know this is a three year old thread but am curious if the DAC in the Marantz AV8802 decodes and supports native DSD format, or if you convert the DSD to PCM first in the Oppo when playing SACD.
AFAIK, all Marantz AV880Xx prepros accept DSD and decode it natively is set on "Direct."
Quote:
Cause some older AV preamp processors' DACs like those of my Classe SSP 800 does not decode or support DSD, the DAC in the Classe only supports high rez PCM & high rez LPCM. Cause Classe claimed and believed that SACD (DSD) would be best outputted using the players' analog audio out in order to get the best sound.
Or perhaps they just didn't want to pay for the licensing.
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:37 PM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
AFAIK, all Marantz AV880Xx prepros accept DSD and decode it natively is set on "Direct."
Or perhaps they just didn't want to pay for the licensing.
Thanks Kal. Yes, it could have been that Classe didn't want to pay for the licensing since they were much smaller company than Denon/Marantz (D&M Holdings). But today Classe, Denon & Marantz are owned by Sound United. So hopefully in the future when Classe releases new HT preamp processor(s) they will be better equipped with more features, bells & whistles such as auto room correction software, etc.
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Old 08-10-2020, 07:22 PM
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I’m still using an 8802A and the AK4490 DACs are one of my favorite off the shelf chips.

They do sound good with SACDs and can play them natively in DSD when pure audio mode is engaged. However when you apply room EQ or bass management, the Marantz will have to convert DSD from the Oppo to PCM internally - so it can handle the DSP needed.

I find that with BluRay concerts and multi channel SACD and DVDA, the Marantz does a fantastic job. It does it better IMHO than my older Denon 4810 and even older Onkyo 875 and Yamaha 2700.

But it doesn’t quite stack up against my 2 channel system when I play 2 channel SACD/DVDA/BluRay Pure Audio music on it (PS Audio DirectStream Memory Transport and DirectStream DAC)

I think if you can still source the Memory Transport, it can actually hook up to 3 of the matching DACs to get 5.1 sound. But that seems like a costly exercise

My older Playback Designs MPS5 could also cascade the PLink ST fibre connection to 2 more MPD5 DACs to do the same but you would need a 6 channel analog preamp to handle volume control. (DirectStream has a digital volume control)
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Old 08-11-2020, 05:16 PM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiehowser View Post
I’m still using an 8802A and the AK4490 DACs are one of my favorite off the shelf chips.

They do sound good with SACDs and can play them natively in DSD when pure audio mode is engaged. However when you apply room EQ or bass management, the Marantz will have to convert DSD from the Oppo to PCM internally - so it can handle the DSP needed.

I find that with BluRay concerts and multi channel SACD and DVDA, the Marantz does a fantastic job. It does it better IMHO than my older Denon 4810 and even older Onkyo 875 and Yamaha 2700.

But it doesn’t quite stack up against my 2 channel system when I play 2 channel SACD/DVDA/BluRay Pure Audio music on it (PS Audio DirectStream Memory Transport and DirectStream DAC)

I think if you can still source the Memory Transport, it can actually hook up to 3 of the matching DACs to get 5.1 sound. But that seems like a costly exercise

My older Playback Designs MPS5 could also cascade the PLink ST fibre connection to 2 more MPD5 DACs to do the same but you would need a 6 channel analog preamp to handle volume control. (DirectStream has a digital volume control)
I was just curious about the AV8802. I don't have the AV8802. I use the Classe SSP 800 pre pro for watching bluray movies and listening to DVD-Audio discs fed by my Oppo 105 via HDMI. I don't listen to SACD or CD using this setup. I do have a dedicated separate 2 ch setup in a different listening room. I have the Cary CD 306 SACD player for CD/HDCD & SACD playbacks feeding into my Classe Omega Reference Mk iii linestage analog stereo preamp + Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps. But one time I tried playing SACD in my Oppo 105, which is connected via HDMI to my Classe SSP 800 pre pro, and the Classe's DAC does not support native DSD so I had to convert the DSD to PCM in the Oppo in order to get it work. Apparently it said in the SSP 800's user manual. I totally forgot since it's been a while since I read the user manual cause I've had the SSP 800 for 8 or 9 years now. lol.

For my dedicated 2 ch setup, I'm thinking to sell the Cary CD 306 SACD player and probably move on to using a streamer/DAC. Was thinking to get the PS Audio DirectStream DAC but there are so many other choices out there. I am also considering the EMM Labs but they are way way more expensive than the DirectStream DAC. I'm also considering the latest Linn Klimax DS/DSM with the latest Katayst DAC which is at similar price point as the newest EMM Labs.

I'm also tempted to get the Naim ND555 streamer/DAC paired with its matching external Naim 555 PS DR power supply unit. The Naim ND555 streamer/DAC does not have internal onboard power supply and is meant to be paired with an external Naim 555 PS DR PSU. But if I go this route I will have to go all the way Naim using Naim linestage preamp and power amp in order to take advantage of using its DIN analog connections, which is proprietary to Naim, to connect between Naim components in order to get best sound. They sounded quite a bit better than using regular RCA single-ended connection. All Naim gears, with the exception of their Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps which I won't be able to afford, only have DIN analog and regular RCA single-ended analog connections (inputs & outputs). In the case of Naim ND555 streamer/DAC it only provides DIN analog & RCA single-ended analog audio outputs to connect to the analog linestage preamp or integrated amp. The DIN sounded way better and Naim highly recommended using its proprietary DIN. The problem is no other hifi audio manufacturers use DIN. Naim might be the only one using DIN connectivity.
My Classe Omega Reference Mk iii linestage analog preamp only has XLR balanced & RCA single-ended inputs.
So if I have to get the Naim ND555 streamer/DAC I will most likely have to end up selling all my Classe Omega Reference preamp & monoblock amps and get the Naim NAC 552 linestage preamp & Naim NAP 500 DR power amp in order to be able to use Naim's proprietary DIN analog connections in order to get best sound. I do love Naim sound very musical smooth laid back yet very rhythmic have very good pace timing speed without sounding forced or strain at all and still maintains its relaxed laid back quality and has plenty of musical drive. Overall sounding very natural and organic and overall music was presented with sense of ease and drive and full bodied. Music just blooms. Tonally Naim gears in general are toward warmth & punchy but without sacrificing musical details, nuances, resolution, attacks and speed.
I have listened to all Naim setups numerous times on many different speakers ranging from PMC, ProAc, ATC, B&W, Harbeth, Magico, Spendor, TAD, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, Raidho.

And all Naim 500 series components do not have internal onboard power supplies and each individual component is meant to be paired with an external Naim 555 PS DR PSU, at least one for each component. They are very expensive. Each Naim 555 PS DR PSU retails for USD $14k. You could use one of two of 555 PS DR for each individual Naim 500 series component. The Naim ND555 streamer/DAC alone without the PSU costs USD $22k plus a single 555 PS DR PSU ($14k) or two 555 PS DR PSU ($28k) for total of USD $36k with a single PSU or total of USD $50k with two PSUs. Using two 555 PS DR PSUs yielded better results better sonic fidelity. I've demoed them at a local Naim dealer here. But using a single 555 PS DR PSU sounded fabulous but using two of them yielded even better results.
This is just for the streamer/DAC. The Naim NAC 552 linestage preamp & the NAP 500 DR power amp are also USD $22k each without the PSU.
So this route will be very expensive but they sounded phenomenal. I'm sure they will sound great on my B&W 800 D3. Naim usually pair well with B&W.

What power amp(s) are you using right now? What speakers do you have?
Do you have your 2 ch and surrounds (HT) in the same hybrid setup in the same room?

Last edited by Dilettante; 08-11-2020 at 05:51 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2020, 05:40 AM
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My stereo system consists of Audio Research Reference 6 with PS Audio BHK Monos.

I also run an Audio Research Reference 3 phono with an Acoustic Signature Thunder/TA5000 12/Kiseki PurpleHeartNS and WandMaster 12 with Sumiko Pearwood Celebration.

Digital is PS Audio DirectStream DAC with the Memory Transport and Bridge II for streaming.

I think if you don’t need SACD playback and stream DSD files, I’d suggest one of the following
A. dCS Bartok with built in streamer and up sampler
B. A streamer like an Auralic Aries G2.1 or CAPS with Chord MScaler and Chord DAVE/Hugo TT2.

I think both sound better than the PS Audio. But I stuck with PS Audio because I wanted a disc transport.

I’ve got an EMM Labs XDS1 (first version) which doesn’t have USB input and while it sounds really good, I reckon the Chord, DS DAC and Bartok have surpassed it.
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