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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under! |
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#1
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First Impressions with an Active Crossover
I recently added a Bryston B10 Sub Crossover to my system. So far, I'm thrilled with the early results. Prior to the B10, The REL subs were connected to the recommended high level signal at the speaker taps. They integrated well some of the time, but often too much or too little. This has been a learning experience but I'm thinking relieving my speakers of full signal was the right thing to do. After trying various settings on the subs I ended up with a "Y" splitter feeding into the L & R RCA inputs on the sub's. (Check w Rel they had 2 versions of Strata III and one of the versions can utilize a splitter) I'm bypassing the subs crossovers by using the LFE setting and Phase is 180. On the Bryston, I currently have everything crossing at 60 and the High Pass Gain set to 0 by adjusting the sub level on the subs.
I have not attempted overlapping the cross points and I have all slopes set to 6db/octave because that's how the unit shipped and I'm in the dark on how to set them. Bottom line, my humble little speakers gained well proportioned weight, speed, and strength and so far I haven't felt the gap between speakers and subs. This has been a big improvement and the system sounds really good even at lower volumes.
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PS Audio P10, dCS Bartok, McIntosh C1100, Legacy Wavelet, McIntosh 452, Legacy Aeris |
#2
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Rick.......Don't be afraid to change the crossover slopes, but always activate the Mute switch on the crossover before making any adjustment. A 60Hz crossover is a great starting point and may be the best place to be, but I would use the 18dB slope for rolling off the low pass and high pass crossover points. The less slope you use the farther the crossover frequency range goes above and below your selected points. Rolling the crossover points off steeply will improve the performance of the sub and the main speakers in my opinion. Either way, don't be afreaid to play with different setting and allow yourself 30 minutes to an hour between changes to be able to acclimate to what you have adjusted. The Bryston 10B Sub active crossover is a fine component.
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Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A |
#3
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Thanks Dan. So the 18 is steeper? What's the downside of going steeper?
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PS Audio P10, dCS Bartok, McIntosh C1100, Legacy Wavelet, McIntosh 452, Legacy Aeris |
#4
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18 dB/octave is steeper.
There's nothing like a real active crossover. Only use very steep slopes with speakers that have specifically matched characteristics. Use the 12dB/octave slope for most applications. SOMETIMES if your main speaker has a very good bass response already you can use 6dB/octave, but otherwise use 12 dB/octave. Last edited by GaryProtein; 11-16-2013 at 06:18 PM. |
#5
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That Bryston 10B sure is nice...it never fails to get my attention!
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Pete No. 35 Main System: VPI Prime Signature TT in Rosewood, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Stillpoints LP1 V2, McIntosh: MP100, MR78, MCD1000 Transport on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MDA1000 D/A Converter on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, MS750 Music Server, C40, MC501's (3), Soundcraftsmen: DC2215 Eq/AS1000 Real time analyzer, DBX 3BX II, Carver C9, Nakamichi Dragon, Crown SX724, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), Sony XBR55X900E 4K TV, JBL L220A's, JBL B460, Sumo Delilah active crossover, WireWorld Silver Eclipse audio interconnects, WireWorld Starlight and Silver Starlight Coaxial Digital interconnects, Wireworld SuperNova 7 Toslink digital interconnect, WireWorld Aurora 7 and Silver Electra Power cords, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-Ray Player, Bryson BUC-1 USB Converter, Wireworld Gold Starlight XLR Digital interconnect, PS Audio Direct Stream Power Plant 12 on Stillpoint Ultra Minis, PS Audio Dectect, FuruTech Flux-50 NCF Inline Power Filter, Add-Powr Wizard EM Field AC Line conditioner; Stillpoint Ultra SS's under (3) McIntosh MC501 Amplifiers Florida Room/Art Studio System: Harmon Kardon T60 TT/Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh: MR77, C32, MC2205; Crown Power Line Four, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 Digital to Analog converter, Soundcraftsmen AE2000 Eq, JBL 4313B's, JBL 2241-based Sub, JBL BX63A Active Crossover, Oppo BDP-105D Blu-Ray Player, Samsung 5500 Series 32" Smart TV, Terk AF-1 Powered Antenna Master Bedroom System: McIntosh: MX120 Theater processor, MC206 6-channel amplifier; MR74 AM/FM Tuner, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, JVC HM-DH40000U D-Theater Digital VHS, Phase Technology PC80 Towers (now used as stands), (2) JBL 4401's, (1) JBL Studio 6IW speaker, (2) JBL Studio 6IC speakers, Sony XBR-49X900E UHD TV, Panamax 1000 Line Conditioner, (2) JL Audio E110 Subwoofers, Wireworld Solstice speaker cables, Wireworld Aurora Power cords, Wireworld Equinox and Solstice speaker cables and various other flavors of Wireworld and Audioquest cabling Office System: Marantz 150 Tuner, Crown DL 2, Crown EQ 2, Crown SA 2, Crown D-75A (as headphone amp), McIntosh MCD7009 (as transport), DBX 3BX Series II, Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player, JBL 4401's, JL Audio E112 Subwoofer, Samsung 5500 series 32" Smart TV, Wire World Oasis audio interconnects, Wire World Solstice speaker cables, Wyred for Sound DAC-2 DSDse Digital to Analog converter, Wireworld Starlight Coaxial Digital Interconnect, Sennheiser HD800 Headphones, Sennheiser HDVA600 Headphone amp, Wireworld Silver Eclipse Balanced Interconnects, Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB Cable, Add-Powr EAU-2 AC Harmonic resonator High Resolution Source: HP Omen 17" Gaming Laptop |
#6
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Rick.......Here is some more information you might find helpful to understand crossover slopes.
By David Mellor, Thursday March 19, 2009 A low-pass filter is a circuit that allows low frequencies to pass and cuts high frequencies. What's interesting is what happens in the transition between pass and cut. Most filters do not simply pass certain frequencies, then suddenly at a certain point cut the rest of the frequency band completely. A so-called 'brick wall' filter is neither useful nor sounds good in most circumstances. Instead there is a 'pass band' in which signals get through unaltered, then a gentle transition to the 'cutoff frequency' where the level is 3 dB lower than in the pass band. Then the response falls off further and further down into the 'stop band'. If the simplest possible filter is constructed from electronic components - one resistor and one capacitor - then the rate at which the level drops in the stop band will be 6 decibels per octave. This means that for each successive doubling of frequencies above the cutoff frequency, the response falls 6 dB. (This is the same as saying 20 dB per decade - a drop of 20 decibels for every tenfold increase in frequency). A slightly more complex filter design can achieve 12 dB/octave; further increases in complexity can yield 18 dB/octave and 24 dB/octave. Oddly enough, in-between values are more complex to achieve, and therefore pointless to attempt. The question is what use are these different filter 'slopes'? A 6dB per octave slope is useful for gentle shaping - a little less bright, a little less heavy, depending on whether the filter is high-pass or low-pass. 12 dB/octave is more useful in a creative musical context. 18 dB/octave even more so as you can cut out great swathes of frequencies and hear hardly anything that you don't want left behind. 24 dB/octave is a little harsh for most purposes. It's like a cliff edge rather than a steep hill, and you can hear the 'edge' where the response suddenly starts to fall. However in synthesis - subtractive ('analog') synthesis, then 24 dB/octave is perfect as it can remove high frequencies while still leaving 'bite' in the sound. Some synthesizers have filters with even steeper slopes. Loudspeaker crossovers also have filters. 12 dB/octave and 18 dB/octave slopes are commonly used to separate bands of frequencies between woofer, mid-range and tweeter. The steeper 24 dB/octave slope is usually only found in PA systems where an active crossover (for which a 24 dB/octave filter is easier to implement) divides the frequency bands before the signals pass through to the power amplifiers.
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Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A |
#7
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That explains a lot. Do you have one of these in use? What frequency are you using to cross the speakers and the subs? I think I want to make sure 60 is my number before playing with the slopes? Is that a sound idea?
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PS Audio P10, dCS Bartok, McIntosh C1100, Legacy Wavelet, McIntosh 452, Legacy Aeris |
#8
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Quote:
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Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A |
#9
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I am sure this is a stupid question but why do you guys feel you need an outboard active crossover in addition to the crossovers already built into the multi thousand dollar pre amps that everyone has?
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#10
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I don't think most preamps have active crossovers built in. That's pretty rare. My lyngdorf DPA-1 does, but I don't know of others
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