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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:59 PM
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Default First Impressions with an Active Crossover

I recently added a Bryston B10 Sub Crossover to my system. So far, I'm thrilled with the early results. Prior to the B10, The REL subs were connected to the recommended high level signal at the speaker taps. They integrated well some of the time, but often too much or too little. This has been a learning experience but I'm thinking relieving my speakers of full signal was the right thing to do. After trying various settings on the subs I ended up with a "Y" splitter feeding into the L & R RCA inputs on the sub's. (Check w Rel they had 2 versions of Strata III and one of the versions can utilize a splitter) I'm bypassing the subs crossovers by using the LFE setting and Phase is 180. On the Bryston, I currently have everything crossing at 60 and the High Pass Gain set to 0 by adjusting the sub level on the subs.

I have not attempted overlapping the cross points and I have all slopes set to 6db/octave because that's how the unit shipped and I'm in the dark on how to set them.

Bottom line, my humble little speakers gained well proportioned weight, speed, and strength and so far I haven't felt the gap between speakers and subs. This has been a big improvement and the system sounds really good even at lower volumes.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:28 PM
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Rick.......Don't be afraid to change the crossover slopes, but always activate the Mute switch on the crossover before making any adjustment. A 60Hz crossover is a great starting point and may be the best place to be, but I would use the 18dB slope for rolling off the low pass and high pass crossover points. The less slope you use the farther the crossover frequency range goes above and below your selected points. Rolling the crossover points off steeply will improve the performance of the sub and the main speakers in my opinion. Either way, don't be afreaid to play with different setting and allow yourself 30 minutes to an hour between changes to be able to acclimate to what you have adjusted. The Bryston 10B Sub active crossover is a fine component.


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Old 11-16-2013, 06:00 PM
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Thanks Dan. So the 18 is steeper? What's the downside of going steeper?
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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18 dB/octave is steeper.

There's nothing like a real active crossover.

Only use very steep slopes with speakers that have specifically matched characteristics.

Use the 12dB/octave slope for most applications. SOMETIMES if your main speaker has a very good bass response already you can use 6dB/octave, but otherwise use 12 dB/octave.

Last edited by GaryProtein; 11-16-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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That Bryston 10B sure is nice...it never fails to get my attention!
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:46 PM
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Rick.......Here is some more information you might find helpful to understand crossover slopes.



By David Mellor, Thursday March 19, 2009

A low-pass filter is a circuit that allows low frequencies to pass and cuts high frequencies. What's interesting is what happens in the transition between pass and cut.

Most filters do not simply pass certain frequencies, then suddenly at a certain point cut the rest of the frequency band completely. A so-called 'brick wall' filter is neither useful nor sounds good in most circumstances.

Instead there is a 'pass band' in which signals get through unaltered, then a gentle transition to the 'cutoff frequency' where the level is 3 dB lower than in the pass band. Then the response falls off further and further down into the 'stop band'.

If the simplest possible filter is constructed from electronic components - one resistor and one capacitor - then the rate at which the level drops in the stop band will be 6 decibels per octave.

This means that for each successive doubling of frequencies above the cutoff frequency, the response falls 6 dB. (This is the same as saying 20 dB per decade - a drop of 20 decibels for every tenfold increase in frequency).

A slightly more complex filter design can achieve 12 dB/octave; further increases in complexity can yield 18 dB/octave and 24 dB/octave. Oddly enough, in-between values are more complex to achieve, and therefore pointless to attempt.

The question is what use are these different filter 'slopes'?

A 6dB per octave slope is useful for gentle shaping - a little less bright, a little less heavy, depending on whether the filter is high-pass or low-pass. 12 dB/octave is more useful in a creative musical context. 18 dB/octave even more so as you can cut out great swathes of frequencies and hear hardly anything that you don't want left behind.

24 dB/octave is a little harsh for most purposes. It's like a cliff edge rather than a steep hill, and you can hear the 'edge' where the response suddenly starts to fall.

However in synthesis - subtractive ('analog') synthesis, then 24 dB/octave is perfect as it can remove high frequencies while still leaving 'bite' in the sound. Some synthesizers have filters with even steeper slopes.

Loudspeaker crossovers also have filters. 12 dB/octave and 18 dB/octave slopes are commonly used to separate bands of frequencies between woofer, mid-range and tweeter. The steeper 24 dB/octave slope is usually only found in PA systems where an active crossover (for which a 24 dB/octave filter is easier to implement) divides the frequency bands before the signals pass through to the power amplifiers.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:02 PM
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That explains a lot. Do you have one of these in use? What frequency are you using to cross the speakers and the subs? I think I want to make sure 60 is my number before playing with the slopes? Is that a sound idea?
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick U View Post
That explains a lot. Do you have one of these in use? What frequency are you using to cross the speakers and the subs? I think I want to make sure 60 is my number before playing with the slopes? Is that a sound idea?
Rick.......I purchased a new Bryston 10 Sub active crossover from Ivan when I had the SF Guarneri Memento speakers in my studio system. I used it to take the low frequencies off the Mementos and route them to a pair of McIntosh XLS112 powered subwoofers. The Guarneri Memento's roll off quickly below 46Hz. Trying to drive them full range was mudding up the Memento's lower midrange from the mid-bass driver struggling to reproduce the lowest octave below its working range. I crossed over everything below 70Hz to the subs and routed everything above 70Hz to the Memento's. I used a 12dB slope on the low pass filter to allow the subs upper crossover point to ease into the range where the Memento's were crossed over. I set the high pass slope to 18dB to roll off the lowest frequencies steeply before the point at which the Memento's began seeing everything above 50Hz. It worked fabulously for the Guarneri Memento speakers and allowed them to blend perfectly with the two XLS112 subwoofers. With the Bryston 10B Sub active crossover in place my subs and Memento's were seamless and performed as full range speakers. It was a great combination.


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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:41 PM
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I am sure this is a stupid question but why do you guys feel you need an outboard active crossover in addition to the crossovers already built into the multi thousand dollar pre amps that everyone has?
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post
I am sure this is a stupid question but why do you guys feel you need an outboard active crossover in addition to the crossovers already built into the multi thousand dollar pre amps that everyone has?
I don't think most preamps have active crossovers built in. That's pretty rare. My lyngdorf DPA-1 does, but I don't know of others
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