Merrill Audio Veritas Ncore NC1200 Amps reviewed

[hifial]

FYI. The Veritas Amps get a very nice review over at Dagogo. It is the first so far.

Check it out here: Merrill Audio Veritas Monoblock Amplifier Review | A Unique Audiophile Experience

[Glisse]

Thanks for posting. Although I see you have done the same in a few other places. You are clearly, at least, a fan.

I thought it was a poor review:

• Apart from a one line comment that his Pass Labs X-350.5 had better bass, there was no other comparison.
• The reference to similar isolation techniques to the Merrill turntable was outrageous. This amp is being "manufactured" by someone called Merrill Wettasinghe, who most definitely is not George Merrill.
• The review spent most of its content describing the different sound achieved when using different power cables. None of which I had ever heard of, and all of which had some degree of compromise. I am not sure why the reviewer felt it was the power cable causing the compromise, rather than the amp itself. How could he actually know what the amp sounded like? I did note that the "custom designed" power cable supplied with the amps seemed to be the worst. Which was insightful.

But it made me interested enough to investigate why this product, from a guy that has no history as an audio manufacturer, and up until recently (via Google) appeared to be a rave oriented audiophile forum poster - cost such a huge amount. I mean, a "factory direct" price of $12,000 for what is basically a mail-order amp and SMPS module, dropped into a thick aluminium case seems outrageous. If this product was sold through normal channels with distributor and retailer mark-ups, then it would be over $30,000

It seems that Hypex decided to keep the highest power version of their Ncore class D amplifier module and matching SMPS power supply out of the DIY market, which is their normal bread and butter. And just make it available to via OEM to high-end manufacturers. In other words, a high margin business model.

Whilst they did get Theta interested early on, and they showed a $12,000 mono pair, they have since pulled out. PS Audio were interested, but baulked at the price Hypex wanted for this module. So PS Audio are using a different Hypex module on their new amp due out soon, but using a PS Audio designed input stage. For $4,000. Retail.

As this has all be floating around for a year and a half, I am guessing Hypex couldn't sell it to any high-end manufacturers. So to my knowledge, the only "manufacturers" are Merrill/Not George Merrill in the US, and a husband and wife team in the UK selling the same thing, called ATSAH. Which 6 Moons reviewed and liked. Except Hypex themselves have developed a retail brand called Mola-Mola (I think they left out an "o"), which they have demonstrated at a few shows, but seems impossible to buy. Which the guy at 6 Moons wants to buy, as he doesn't like black enclosures and would prefer to buy it from the designer rather than a box assembler.

And he won't be alone. This factory version from Hypex, which is going to go through a normal distribution channel at not much more than the assemblers are being forced to charge, will destroy any market for the assemblers

I did note that the Merrill amp was originally announced at $6,400. But that price shot up rather dramatically before any were sold. Perhaps Hypex are trying to keep the price way up there? If so, that sort of price manipulation should be setting off a few warning bells.

I also noted comments from Bruno Putzeys of Hypex that no two retail versions of this amp will be alike, but all will measure the same. Meaning, "manufacturers" can only change case design, connectors, and footers.

Now, Mr. Putzeys may indeed be a brilliant digital engineer. His class D module may be the best amplifier ever made (he seems to think so). But his marketing approach might be doomed to failure if he continues down this road. His legion of fans in the DIY community are not going to be forking out $12k+ on these finished kit amps, and no mainstream manufacturer is going to be so restricted as to what they can do with the modules. They would damage their own brand otherwise

[Elberoth]

You rise some very good points. I would like to see, how it will all develop in the near future.

[hifial]

While some of what you have said are off base. And some come close. Others are on target.

I do not plan to respond to all and will not get into a debate. Not because I can not address all. I feel it will be a wast of time because I think from your post it is going to be more bashing without firsthand knowledge.

Some of the best amps can be improved by a change in power cords and made worse with the wrong ones. I can say that the ones included sound very good, just that you can make an improvement, like any other good amp (Pass, Theta, Halcro and so forth) which I have done with those and others. A lot better then the throw aways almost everyone else includes.

Why is it so hard to understand that it is very costly to run a business and what you need as a markup. If you are in the OEM Audio business then please comment otherwise it is apples to oranges. The cost of the modules are not the same as the DIY and they are not just a higher power version regardless of any comments. Does Hypex dictate minimum price? Please you think no one else does that.

I will not post Merrill background but he has the goods, more then most. Did you really read the review or did you cherry pick it. I quote from the review; "Armed with a BSEE, an MBA, an international career in R&D and Marketing at Hewlett Packard" You did see the "R&D from HP?
You know, a lot of respected Audio OEM started out with NO ONE EVER HEARD OF THEM.

AS far as who else is an OEM well:May 2013 - Audience goes Ncore - After Acoustic Imagery, Merrill Audio and Bel Canto, US-based Audience becomes the next Ncore 1200 OEM with their WavePower amplifier. Retail $18,000. And more to come.

PS Audio does not sell at that price point, it is not in their business model, so they went for a lesser Hypex design. But others sell at that price point. I do not hear you criticizing those OEMs price points. You know I can not afford a lot of things but that does not mean a would not want to own some of them someday.

A year and a half is not very long as their was a very limited number of test beds sent out to OEMs and they had to have time to evaluate the new design. Mola-Mola (what a horrible name) web is up and running and sipping shortly.

He sells through a dealer in NY and is in the process with others so what is your point. Almost everyone in the AUDIO field will be selling direct and through a few dealers, as many do now. PS Audio being just one.

When you say "I also noted comments from Bruno Putzeys of Hypex that no two retail versions of this amp will be alike, but all will measure the same. Meaning, "manufacturers" can only change case design, connectors, and footers."
What Bruno/Hypex said was that they have to measure as good as the Hypex specs or better and must be of a different design.

I dare you to give an honest listen to the Merrill Audio Veriats amps and not be impressed by them. Then you will at least have FIRSTHAND Knowledge as to that part of your post. You can even try them in your own system.

One final. Yes, I have posted here and on others. Have not you. Yes I am a FAN. As you have pointed out not many people know of Merrill Audio and Hypex. Because I feel this new Ncore Tech is a breakthrough in amps and I at least have firsthand hearing comparisons to not only other amps in my system but in other systems as well I want others to know about it so they can check it.

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by hifial

AS far as who else is an OEM well:May 2013 - Audience goes Ncore - After Acoustic Imagery, Merrill Audio and Bel Canto, US-based Audience becomes the next Ncore 1200 OEM with their WavePower amplifier. Retail $18,000. And more to come.

Very interesting insider info ... especially from someone who claims NOT to be connected to said manufacturer.

[Glisse]

Well, as Adam has suggested above, you are clearly more than just an interested fan, HiFiAl.

Better to be up-front on these associations, otherwise you come across as disingenuous.

My criticisms were entirely related to a sub-standard product review that you linked to, what I feel to be a flawed marketing model being pursued by Hypex, and by high prices being charged by 2 companies with no audio engineering credentials.

And this is important to end consumers, who most of us on this forum are. If you are going to spend $12,000 on an audio product, are you going to do so with a new start-up who may or may not be around in a year, or with an established company likely to be able to service it if the need arises?

Nothing to do with how these new Ncore modules actually sound

And no, I did not skim through the review. I read it twice, then read up on the NC1200 module, read the 6 Moons review on the UK twin of the Veritas, press releases on the Mola-Mola triplet, reviews on the Ncore OEM prototype, the very extensive thread on PS Audio, and then read Bruno Purtzeys' bio from various sources. Because I was interested.

It is obvious that Hypex have priced the module very high, which results in a minimum effective retail price starting at $10K for anyone to be able to make money using it. The smaller NC400 module is being sold to DIY for $400, but they will not sell it to anyone they suspect may be commercialising production. IOW, it seems that Hypex are trying to recoup all their development costs and return on intellectual equity out of the OEM channel via a limited volume, high margin approach.

The trouble is, that places the current and future "manufacturers" in a quandary regarding their own brand DNA vs that of Hypex in their finished product. And it means consumers are paying a high margin for the guts of the amp, and then again for the finished product. And further, what happens to the resale value of these expensive amps if Hypex, or B&O for that matter, come out with an even better digital amp module in a year's time? That's why I don't like it, and why I consider it a flawed model regardless of how good the modules may sound

To close, here is a post from the PS audio forum, which includes a quote from one of the owners of Auralic, which seems to sum it up quite well because it acknowledges both the strengths and weaknesses:

Of interest, Srajan Ebaen (sixmoons.com) has reviewed both a pair of Hypex NC1200-based monos and a pair of modified-UcD400-board monos "with Lundahl input transformer, a custom linear power supply and custom voltage-gain circuitry". Although he found the former "slightly better" than the latter, he awarded the latter (the UcD400-based amplifiers) his Blue Moon Award.

Also, sounds like the NC1200 module would require far more in the way of a power supply, so it's unlikely that anyone would make (or want to make) a drop-in chassis and power supply for one's choice of module. The following is from Xuanqian Wang, co-owner of AURALiC, which produces the UcD400 monos above: " "...we have a pair of NC1200 samples which sound very natural and overtake most <$10.000 class AB amps on the market if properly used. For the next 5 years Ncore is a game changer! The only limit from a popularity perspective is price. I believe Hypex spent a lot of money developing the Ncore module. I fully appreciate their pricing structure. But so far it is very expensive, far beyond what we can achieve with traditional class AB technology. I think that $10,000 is just a starter price for Ncore amps... Ncore(1200) so far is only for flagships. That module should be used with a linear power supply to really maximize its performance. This would demand a >1.200 watt linear supply. Properly done that gets extremely expensive."

[hifial]

NONE of this is inside info. As I have said in many of my posts about Hypex and Merrill Audio. I have been following the development of the Ncore from Hypex for a couple of years. I belong to several Audio clubs in the NJ/NY metro area. In those clubs are several members who are Audio OEMs, some very well known others not, and Merrill is one of those members. I have NO financial or otherwise interest in either one.


The above info that is SO INSIDER is from the OEMs press release that was posted on a few web Audio Mags, 6moons.com: News Room, Audience to Unveil Its New WavePower Amplifier with Hypex Ncore® Technology at T.H.E. Show: Newport 2013 | A Unique Audiophile Experience Audience to Unveil New WavePower Amplifier | Ultra High-End Audio and Home Theater Review

MOVE ON

[harri009]

Hmm, I would like to hear them but for a startup company I agree the price is to high.

[Alki]

Originally Posted by harri009

Hmm, I would like to hear them but for a startup company I agree the price is to high.

+1, this is the bottom line.

[hifial]

FYI. Another review seems to be forthcoming from PF. See except below and link to same. aural symphonics

The Music

As I pointed out in previous articles on cable products, technical design and construction principles invariably constitute fascinating discussions in the abstract, but unless applied technologies correlate positively to musical results, the designer's effort is for naught. Thus, I was quite keen to verify the sonic prowess of the cable suite, under a variety of equipment configuration. Over the last 12 months, my evolving test environment has consisted of an Esoteric K-01 and X-01 CD players, the Rowland Criterion Preamplifier, an early version of the Rowland M625 300W stereo amplifier, a pair of Rowland M725 330W monoblock amplifiers, the amazing Merrill Veritas 400W monoblock amplifiers (review upcoming), and the marvelous quasi 5-way Vienna Acoustics The Music—my reference speakers (reviewed PFO Issue 59).

I also understand the concerns of a new company, at any price point.
My money is just as precious to me as yours is to you. But Hypex supplies amp modules of all kinds to many large companies. They make a quality product and once up and running should be trouble free. And if anything about the module goes it should be just a replacement. So I am gambling on Merrill. Well I do not gamble at Vegas or AC. Knowing what I know of the man I felt comfortable enough to pull the trigger.

But like I said, I respect your concerns. But I would suggest anyone to give Merrill a call, or not.