Cross over differences between 800/802/803D3

[GregGale]

I knew there were differences in the cross over between the 800 and 802 but did not realize there was also a difference between the 802 and 803.

I saw some photos on line that showed the different cross overs and you could clearly see the component differences between all three in terms of size and numbers of Mundorf capacitors used.

I went to the B&W parts website and looked up the part numbers for the cross overs and price and there is less than $100 difference between the 800 and 802 but over a $400 difference between the 802 and 803.

My question to Patrick is how much of an effect does this have (other than the drivers) on the improvement on sound quality between the three.

I am sure they are voiced to get the best out of the drivers in each speaker based on the space available on the aluminum mounting assembly.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by GregGale

I went to the B&W parts website and looked up the part numbers for the cross overs and price and there is less than $100 difference between the 800 and 802 but over a $400 difference between the 802 and 803.

My question to Patrick is how much of an effect does this have (other than the drivers) on the improvement on sound quality between the three.

I am sure they are voiced to get the best out of the drivers in each speaker based on the space available on the aluminum mounting assembly.

If I may, IMO the difference due to crossover components is likely to be subtle rather than significant, subjectively.

The higher cost of the 800 / 802 crossover comes mostly from the 200uF worth of film Vs NP electrolytic capacitor per speaker in the LF (woofer) part of the crossover. The Mundorf film caps are technically better, so measured distortion will be slightly lower than the NPE's, but given that the distortion from the bass drivers themselves is going to dominate the overall distortion numbers the audible difference is unlikely to be more than subtle.

That said, quality film caps tend to last a long long time without degradation or drift, so the extra $$ amounts to a guarantee of consistent high performance over many years. For prospective 803D3 owners this could mean that NPE caps might need to be replaced every ten years in order to guarantee the same performance as new, but depending on use and environmental factors those NPE caps might still be fine in 20 years from now.

[joey_v]

My understanding is there's a difference in xover frequency of bass/mid between 800 and 802/803 in addition to the Mundorf upgraded caps found in the 800.

I recall this from my conversation with BWs Andy Kerr.

[Art Vandelay]

For those interested.

I found this pic of the 802 / 800 D3 crossover assemblies. The main difference is the use of Mundorf Supreme SGO Vs Mundorf Supreme EVO in the mid/treble. There are 2x caps in parallel which make up one large cap in series with the Continuum FST driver, which are Supreme SGO in the 800 but are EVO types in the 802. Having heard both caps in various DIY design crossovers I'm of the view that there's not much difference between them, particularly when used below 4kHz. Fwiw, the older 800D2 crossover was slightly higher quality, using Supreme SGO throughout the entire mid / treble and with a dedicated pcb for the tweeter. It was also fully soldered, using no screw terminals at all. (see 2nd attachment)

In terms of the crossover design itself, aside from some values that may differ slightly, the actual design appears to be identical to that of the older D2 series.

[joey_v]

You're right Dave... Even looking at the 800d2, you can tell the crossover was of a higher build quality.

[Art Vandelay]

A distinct advantage of the older 800D2 model was that the aluminium plinth provided a nice place to house the crossover components, and space wasn't a premium. And B&W didn't skimp either. The 800D2 crossover and wiring is genuinely high quality, right down to the HQ PCB's and silver soldered connections.

Personally, I would prefer to see more manufacturers opt for externally housed crossovers for their flagship speakers, even if it does add slightly to the total cost, if only because it eliminates the need to compromise on layout and components.