Preamp Possibilities

[prepress]

Originally Posted by JJinID

I recommend checking out the ModWright LS100 as another possibility to add to your list. It has the option to do an add on module for either a USB/Coax DAC or a phon-pre if you are interested in either of those.

I am really liking the sound in my system with my MC501s!

I'll take a look. What type of sound does your speaker system have, by the way? Does it run warm, neutral, or dry/analytical?

[prepress]

I've been away for a while, and spent some time in Nashville where, on a whim, I went to the one McIntosh dealer in town, HiFi Buys. And, for the first time, saw a C2300 and C50 in the same room. So I got a demo. They weren't in the same system, however: the 2300 was paired with a MC275 and MCD301 (tube combo); the C50 was with a MCD500 and MC302 (solid state combo). The speakers (Revel floorstanders) and speaker cables were the same, though. The salseman had a mix CD on hand, and the main track used was a Lee Ritenour tune, Night Rhythms, from his Festival album.

Both sounded good, but there were differences. To me, the tube combo was smoother but seemed a bit too polite. The SS combo was livelier and sharper, but there was what seemed to be a touch of hardness at one point in the track. On another tune (not sure what it was) the two systems sounded more alike. Frankly, what sounded better than either of them was the MCD500 with an MA6600 feeding a pair of B&W monitors. Not much bottom, but the rest was gorgeous. What I took away from this was that I understand why Mac and B&W are a popular combo, and why mixing tube and solid state is a good idea. I also took away a pair of Transparent MusicPlus interconnects, which I will try for my pre/power connection.

[JJinID]

Originally Posted by prepress

I'll take a look. What type of sound does your speaker system have, by the way? Does it run warm, neutral, or dry/analytical?

I'm sorry I missed your question to me a month ago - did not see it for some reason. I have only heard my LS360s with my McIntosh amps, and in all cases the system does run a bit to the warm side, but that has been my preference. The speakers are slightly forgiving and rolled off in the upper frequencies compared to my dad's PMCs, for instance, which are more clean/crisp. However they have a very dynamic, big, and musical sound that I do very much enjoy. Probably not the most resolving speaker out there, and they do suck up a lot of power very easily. However, I have had them now for almost 12 years, and I have never felt like they were the weak point in my system. I hope that helps...

I will say that I believe the LS100 has opened up and improved the sound of my system much more so than I thought it would. I believe if it has the inputs/outputs and features that you are looking for, it compares very favorably with the preamps you have listed in this thread. If you have the opportunity to audition one I recommend it. I will have more to say about my extended audition with the LS100 I have been using for "evaluation" very soon.

[prepress]

. . . Meantime, there's a real chance I'll be listening to a VTL TL6.5 in a few weeks. That's a dangerous proposition, I know, but it's possible. I'm already thinking about whether I can actually get away with buying one and if my wallet can handle it.

[prepress]

Well, the VTL idea has hit a snag. At first, I thought that at $9500 it would be doable though a strain. However, I soon discovered that price is at least 5 years old and the unit's been around longer than I thought (VTL's website still calls it "new"). More digging turned up a November 2012 price of $11,500. That is too much for me to spend at this point.

Perversely, I have one of those check offers from my credit card which would allow me to pay over time with no interest for a year and I actually began to consider whether that could work, even with the 4% of purchase/transfer fee for using the check. Add that and the tax, we're talking $13,000. There is no way that should happen. Saving more for the VTL won't work as the price will likely go up again by the time I think I've saved up enough, so I'll do well to return to my original preamp list.

And it has only two tubes in it. . . I could live with that.

[prepress]

It occurred to me this AM that had it not been for last year's episodes with my former sister-in-law's house and a friend's need, that would be roughly $5200 more in my pocket and we would now be discussing my new VTL TL-6.5 Signature preamp. Interesting how life works.

[prepress]

Aas an aside, I've finally put in the Transparent MusicLink Plus interconnect I bought around Christmas, and started to break it in yesterday. It's between my preamp and power amps. I have heard a difference in the main track I use for such evaluations, The Strife Is O'er from my For God and Country CD. It's an organ/brass CD, and the track in question has bass organ notes which are easy to pick out and follow. The Transparent did a slightly better job with them overall than the Audioquest King Cobra it's replacing (not that the AQ is bad). I have heard other things I haven't noticed before playing the Booker T. & the MGs box set Time is Tight. It could also be that, in the case of the Booker T, I was sitting closer to the speaker than usual (this is where the computer is). But I didn't notice the fuzz tone in the bass on one track before with the AQ.

So far I would say some improvement but nothing earth-shaking. Here and there Steve Cropper's guitar sounded a tad more real. And listening to Close to the Edge things seemed a bit more open, leading me to think a touch of warmth (tubes?) might be good with these Transparents. Time will tell; it's only the first listen.

[prepress]

And I may be getting closer to some resolution of the whole preamp issue. In the next few weeks I will be going to a local dealer to have a direct comparison between the C50 and C2300 in the same system. Since the C50 and C48 are the same as regards sound, if I prefer the C50 I'll get the C48 and have money left to get a new equipment rack, too.

If I prefer the 2300, that changes some things. It will have to be a lot better, not just better (according to the salesman, the C2300 "kills" the C50). It means a commitment to tubes, reconfiguring my setup to accommodate the unit, and doing without the DAC (which I wasn't going to use unless needed) for any future system changes, or having to buy one separately if things get to the point where digital is the only option for new music.

At this point, I'm perhaps 75% decided to get a new preamp. What happens at this audition may push things to 100%. We'll see.

[o0OBillO0o]

Let us know..

[prepress]

I realized some things during the night that put some perspective on this preamp deal.

1. Ultimately, I'm not a tube person at heart. I'm not thrilled at the extra maintenance and cost of tube equipment. Even though tube failure is rare with signal tubes such as those in a preamp, it is possible, and that's on my mind. My ideal, which I can't afford, is the VTL TL-6.5 Signature, an $11,500 unit. A tube unit, yes, but with a solid-state power supply and only two tubes versus the C2300's six. And for some odd reason, I sense slightly more acceptance of the coming C2500 over the 2300 even though it has the same six tubes; perhaps it's the somewhat sleeker design. The main reason I consider the 2300 at all is the overwhelmingly positive hype on this forum. And it still bothers me a bit at having to tube the MC phono stage, which I'll never use.

2. I'd prefer a line stage. McIntosh doesn't make one, unfortunately. The reason for a Mac preamp is I have Mac amps, so it's an obvious match. The non-Mac preamps on my short list are line stage affairs, as is the VTL. The ARC LS27, which I considered briefly, is also (again, only two tubes). I already have a phono preamp, though not state-of-the-art (Aragon 47k), which would be redundant with either Mac unit. As many here prefer a separate DAC, so I prefer a separate phono stage. Still, perhaps it's not a deal-breaker; if the Mac's onboard phono is much better, then I guess I would use it and have to do something with my 47k.

3. The Parasound JC2 is still lurking. And now that the Halo line comes in black, the JC2 is much more appealing than before. I've seen photos, and I really like the look. I've also seen a couple of posts here and there regarding the positive pairing of Parasound preamp and Mac amp. I also don't think the one caveat about pairing it with lean-sounding equipment applies to my MC501s and Mirage M-3si speakers.

So that quickly the waters have muddied. There are several dangers I see here. One, I go ahead with the audition and the 2300 indeed "kills" the C50, as the store salesman says, creating personal angst and confusion; two, I decide stubbornly to go for what I want (the VTL) despite the money, creating danger; three, I say to heck with it and get the JC2 (maybe the JC3 also) and live happily ever after; or four, I plunge into research all over again, eventually burn out on the whole thing and just stand pat. A lot changed overnight.

I begin to miss the simpler days of a receiver, turntable and speakers.