Amati Futura at RMAF

[scarpi]

To make those frequency response specs really meaningful shouldn't they include a +/- db range? It seems some speaker manufacturers now don't include that in their specs and if the speaker is down 6db at 30Hz, that low end would be almost inaudible.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by scarpi

To make those frequency response specs really meaningful shouldn't they include a +/- db range? It seems some speaker manufacturers now don't include that in their specs and if the speaker is down 6db at 30Hz, that low end would be almost inaudible.

Measuring bass in speakers is not codified at all. 5 different manufacturers might measure and spec bass 5 different ways. That said, basing a perceived bass difference on a show demo of one model versus a spec sheet of another model is absurd.

http://www.audioaficionado.org/gener...you-heard.html

[scarpi]

Yes I agree that manufacturers may in fact measure bass in speakers differently but perhaps it would be a good idea if there were standards to measure speaker frequency response. That way you at least would have a guide as to how a speaker performs under certain known standards. This might be as follows, such and such speaker has a frequency response of 35Hz - 25kHz +/- 3db in an anechoic chamber measured at a certain distance. If all credible manufacturers used such standards, this would at least give you a better idea of how the speaker performs compared to other similiar speakers measured the same way. Of course this does not replace auditioning to make the final decision if a speaker fits your needs, but I think it is better than manufacturers just stating a speaker has a frequency response of 35Hz - 25kHz.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by scarpi

Yes I agree that manufacturers may in fact measure bass in speakers differently but perhaps it would be a good idea if there were standards to measure speaker frequency response. That way you at least would have a guide as to how a speaker performs under certain known standards. This might be as follows, such and such speaker has a frequency response of 35Hz - 25kHz +/- 3db in an anechoic chamber measured at a certain distance. If all credible manufacturers used such standards, this would at least give you a better idea of how the speaker performs compared to other similiar speakers measured the same way. Of course this does not replace auditioning to make the final decision if a speaker fits your needs, but I think it is better than manufacturers just stating a speaker has a frequency response of 35Hz - 25kHz.

Not so much. If there was agreement, there would be a standard. How bass is measured is not standardized. There are those who believe anechoic is the correct way to measure and there are those who adamantly do not. What is the correct distance? Some want 1M, some want some other distance. The bottom line is that you need a measurement standard that applies to the real world use. The industry doesn't agree on what that standard is.

[BillK]

If it were Sonus Faber vs. say Wilson, that would be one thing, but the quoted specs were Sonus Faber vs. Sonus Faber, so I would think they'd use the same techniques to measure them.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by BillK

If it were Sonus Faber vs. say Wilson, that would be one thing, but the quoted specs were Sonus Faber vs. Sonus Faber, so I would think they'd use the same techniques to measure them.

That would be true if you were listening to 2 spec sheets not 2 different speakers on different systems in different rooms. I can change the bass response by well more than 1Hz simply by how I place either speaker in a room. Further, a room that has a floor to ceiling bass trap down most of the left side (the room at RMAF) will respond differently than one that does not.

The bigger issue is the bass response linearity between rolloff in the low 20s (we have measured 22Hz from Futura in Sumiko Studio 1, baffling in itself) and the 150Hz-200Hz range. A bump in the below 100Hz range is often perceived as extended bass instead of the more bass it actually is. Both Memento and Anniversario are not as linear as Evolution and Futura from their lowest reaches up through the weight range. That appears to have more of an effect on the average listener's perception of bass extention than do the lower limits of the bass itself.

Knowing what you heard is absolutely useless without understanding why you heard it. No spec sheet or show report is going to help you there.

[avsBuddy]

The Amati Futura demo wasn't bad, I didn't miss the bass because they actively used REL sub with good results. Use of the D Class AR amp puzzled me as well, but overall room sounded nice. We listened to the new Elipsa in the other room, the new version with improved drivers and new finish. My fiance loved the look of the speakers, but once they started to play my CD we both cringed. The Elipsa had the same trait that forced me to sell my Sonus Faber Grand Piano - dip in the midrange response. This resulted in the overall thin sound with disjointed and even unpleasant highs. B&W 802D in the same room fared much better, though they also have the occasional high frequency bite -but at least they sounded coherent from top to bottom.

The best speaker I've heard in the show were Sony AR1 and JM Labs Huge Utopia's

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by avsBuddy

The Amati Futura demo wasn't bad, I didn't miss the bass because they actively used REL sub with good results. Use of the D Class AR amp puzzled me as well, but overall room sounded nice. We listened to the new Elipsa in the other room, the new version with improved drivers and new finish. My fiance loved the look of the speakers, but once they started to play my CD we both cringed. The Elipsa had the same trait that forced me to sell my Sonus Faber Grand Piano - dip in the midrange response. This resulted in the overall thin sound with disjointed and even unpleasant highs. B&W 802D in the same room fared much better, though they also have the occasional high frequency bite -but at least they sounded coherent from top to bottom.

The best speaker I've heard in the show were Sony AR1 and JM Labs Huge Utopia's

An interesting take on that room, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by VT Skier

It's all so subjective and room dependent I treat the shows as just another data point.

Originally Posted by metaphacts

That is evaluation gold right there.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by avsBuddy

The best speaker I've heard in the show were Sony AR1 and JM Labs Huge Utopia's

I heard the Sony's in two rooms and they were very good. The Focal you heard were not the top of their line "only" the $90k Stella Utopia's.

Jim

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by Still-One

The Focal you heard were not the top of their line "only" the $90k Stella Utopia's.

Jim

Walked in on them being demoed with the Sumiko set up track. Very interesting.