AR REF250 monos

[fred69]

Yes il live in Swiss near Geneva.
i own Wilson Sasha 2, and i'll replace it for Alexia at the end of 2014.

I'm a classic musician (Piano), and i really take car of the realism of the music in Hifi
The only greats amplifier who works well with Wilson Audio for me are:
-Spectral
-Vitus Audio
-Karan

The best value for me is Karan for sure !

For the second hand market i'm not agree, i sold my KAS400 in january for a very good value (i could sold it 10 times...)
What you need to know is that Karan keep good value if you sold it (on second hand) on your own country, because Karan has exceptions for that point !

And for others brand, that's similar for value, i sold my Audio Research REF110 for 5200 CHF (around 4500 Euros), and it costs me 14500 CHF !
i think you must compare the right things (on second hand value) with old revisions in each brand.

Now i own a Karan S600 and i want to keep it, it's really beautiful
i'm quite sure it will match with my futures Alexias, but i'm considering the Karan M900 (if i have enough money to replace it)

[dminches]

Originally Posted by jpgr4blu

Hi dminches:
I have not heard Ayre monos in my system or with Wilsons. I have heard them in other systems and have always been impressed. I do know of 2 Wilson owners whose opinions I respect who have switched from Ayre to Dag.

I am sure the Dags are great amps. The cost difference between them and the Ayre is over double. I am hoping to audition a pair of Ayre mono blocks in my system later in the month.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by raidho

Hello, I dont have a dedicated listen room , my system is in the living room. (around 60m2 (10meter long x 6 large not bad but ..I have a but at the end..) Ref.250 and others AR are very good that's sure. the point is that have a system with tube need care, place, ..... mati1979 write right mati1979: I see the Alexia with the Pass XS serie and AR as pre and is a great combo. sure more vs. the Mc. sorry, I do is a personal taste but Mc match with speakers like Sonus Faber very good (if this is YOUR soudn taste) Class A are too not so "symple" like a class D system..BUT the point is : I will have a great system and at each listening session I want to hear music .... good music / want to enjoy it (=quality of music of course) Dagostino stereo is a great product sure but you can not deny that the price is high for a "simple" stereo amplifier. I dont have listen the Dag in my room and i dont know if all what you read / hear is true. some is amazing some very "flat sound". The point is the price. Pay for a Dag stereo the same price as a pair of ref250 is a "+" for the Dag. (i dont know the price in Usa but in europa Dag is really overpriced for what offert.) jpgr4blu with the same price AR ref250 and Dag stereo (new serie = The first series of dagostino had transformers / electrical part does not live here and have been replaced at least in eurpopa (you know we work with 230v Vs. 120v and certainly plays an important role)) -> I will go with a Dagostino vs. the AR (of course after a session in my room) The Dag monos are too expensive for the Sasha2. the are priced sooo much more from the speaker and imho have no sense - maybe with the Alexia the monos can be considered..... If you have the Dag stereo, the AR250 monos at the same price which one is "the choice"? dminches the Ayre are amazing. I have listen this the Kx-r and the mono Mx-r with Thiel 3.7 and Magico speakers. The Ayre Mx-r and to the Vx-r are no doubt very very good. expensive? Yes, more from the Dag (for me) shame because they are really very good, good sound, "small", ... (with your premapli and with a AR as premapli) great SS ampli are sure available on the market: Constellation, FM Acosutics, Soulution!! minus $$$$ others not in Usa present: Accustic Arts and AVM (chef was in Burmester). this two are for me very interesting. great building, super price/perfomance. Accustic Arts® AVM Audio - Overview (ovation serie) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSCf59FEnqQ#t=33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeohyoFYb0U fred69: you are in europe too? The ampli Karan are a good match with Wilson I do. the KA s400 or the KA s600 with the right cables is a very good combo. Karan is not so much expensive (vs Dag and company..) if for you the value in the second hand is important karan is really very difficult to resell (you pay 10k? with a lot of luck you can have 3k.!) surely if you think the sale of equipment that you do not have yet is not very positive ... Decision....decision..... At the end of all I can say the a AR preampli is without doubt a very smart purchase. ampli: AR - tube ampli - sound good - You will have a "hot" equipment ? ready to pay for this brunt a very good/amazing sound? Dag stereo: well yes, is a good solution -> intelligent? I dont know. Pass class A: for Me the new point 8 is a great ampli. here too monos, "hot" place but not so much like the Arc. Others? I dont know...... Your point of view? Thank you.

Personally, I think you should try the Ref 75 with your Ref 5SE and see if you like that combo which I think you will and with the KT150s (quite a few have dropped them in and swear by the results as Priaptor has above). In the SS camp, I think you will be very surprised by a pairing of ARC preamp Ref 5SE with either Ayre MX-R stereo or mono amps or if you can get your hands on them the Lamm M1.2 (Class A).

[Masterlu]

fred69... Welcome to AA!

[jpspock]

Hi Fred69,

great to know you are a classic musician. Then read carefully the test of the xa100.5 by Dr Poltun who is Director of Archives for the prestigious Vienna State Opera/Philharmonic Orchestra since 1992. For me it is the best test did for those amps. At the moment of the test he used a WP8 and since a few months ago apair of Sasha. I think this guy knows a lot about classic music.
Far form to say Ayre or Karan are bad amp, surely not, but not the only ones.

[fred69]

Hi jpspock

yes, we know this paper about Mr Poltun Pass Labs made....
Every Brand need Adverts... we can see B&W, Wilson, PMC on recordings studios, etc...

A friend of mine has Pass Labs on his Wilson, ok for the power: no problems. But for the real life music, i can't : to bright for me.
This friend will change the pass labs in order to have more emotional music on his wilson, i don't know what it will choose (peharps Big LAMM valves), i'll let you know for his future results.

[tima]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Personally, I think you should try the Ref 75 with your Ref 5SE and see if you like that combo which I think you will and with the KT150s (quite a few have dropped them in and swear by the results as Priaptor has above). In the SS camp, I think you will be very surprised by a pairing of ARC preamp Ref 5SE with either Ayre MX-R stereo or mono amps or if you can get your hands on them the Lamm M1.2 (Class A).

I don't think there is an issue about liking the Ref 75 paired with the Ref 5SE - seems like lots of people like that combination. Both are excellent components. Asking oneself about the level of performance one hopes to achieve seems a reasonable consideration. Relative sufficiency to do the job can be an expanding horizon - in part based on knowledge of what is possible.

I believe it is particularly important to have several listening sessions to compare the 75 Watt tubed Ref 75 and a larger wattage tube amp (150 or 250) and one or more SS (or hybrid) amps of 100+ amps into 8-Ohms that double into 4 ohms and again into 2. Until you can understand the differences by hearing them for yourself using your own music that you consider 'demanding', you can't make a knowledgeable choice (or at least I couldn't for myself.) Of course YMMV.

If the Sasha were a nominal 8 or 16-Ohm speaker I'd feel a lot more confident that the differences between a 75 Watt tube amp and something with greater output such as the ARC 150 or 250 can not be heard. This is by no means a criticism of the Ref 75, but an acknowledgement - at least by my ears - that there are genuine sonic differences between it and larger amps. This not so much a matter of an amp 'running out of steam' or differences in kind, but of differences in quality - areas such as articulation, resolution, tonal density and lifespan, on-demand dynamic swings, etc. Whether such differences are important is an issue for oneself. Preferred listening volume, room volume and acoustics are also factors.

On a side note, I do agree about the Ayres. Having evaluated the Sasha with the MX-Rs (and really pushing the speakers) I think they are a great match where solid state is preferred.

[raidho]

Hello fred69,

I live in switzerland too.

Karan is a good combo with wilson. I agree with you.

In France near Lyon is present a dealer that push over Karan product.
Karan KAS 400 can be a interessing ampli for me. (sure the KAS600 are much better..) but I dont have never listen the Karn with a Wilson in a "good room & combo setup". Purchase the Karan at close box is a very "risiko" investiment.

For the second hand is always "relativ"..if you have the right person that search the Karan/AR/Pass/... you can have a "good" resell value...

For AR ref 110 second hand Chf. 5200,.? wow, I say you that a NEW Ref150 can I have the Chf. 7900!!

Pass is (imho) one of the better brand in your price range. For a 1 year old combo Xa100.5 I receive not the 50% from the new price!

Sound from "tube" is sure more "open" and "airy" vs. the Pass sound.

Vitus is too a perfect match with Wilson. I have listen the Signature & Reference series: The Reference (Rs100 ampli) is for me better from the Signature.
the integrated Ri100 was a big surprise really. sure using the ampli Rs100 amplifier with a preampli (2 chassis setup) is normally more performing vs integrated... -> the Vitus Rl101 or a AR ref5se?

Lamm ...good but rpice lige?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPdArtmM6y4
(for what it's worth a listen on youtube)

A friend had the Spectral 360mono s2 with Magico Q5 now a new system but spectral ae very great. what i dont like is the rca as best cabling and the Mit cables. ( a cable for me muss be a cablenot at "box" within a equalazier? or who knows what inside.... (well this is my opinion)

What for cables you use? (Dealer in Lyon say the "Esprit" with the "Lumina" is a perfect match with Wilson & Karran.)

You use a cd player or a Nas center / cumputer....."musique dématérialisée"?
Pesonally a good player is the first source. maybe i'm going to develop my small music system liquid ...
(-> Lumin A1_ much better frm Linn poducts.....a Nas center....)


thank you for reply.

[fred69]

Hi Raidho

for sure i'll not use REF 150 and no REF 250 on my future Alexia, only KAS600 or perhaps KAM 900 (mono blocs).
They drive the bass like no amplifier can at this price. All The Wilson need a lot of power to drive the bass.

I think you're thinking of the same dealer as me in France because of Esprit cable, in september i'll shift my Kubala cable for Esprit Lumina or Gaia: Really magical sound, incredible (the only cable who can compare to Gaia or Lumina are the Tranparent cables OPUS). I listened the Gaia on Karan amplifier... Oh my god !

For the moment i use CD player from Metronome Technolgie, i'll update (but keep my metronome) for a new system like you say "dématérialisée" because this same dealer has a very good choices in theses systems !

[mati1979]

Originally Posted by fred69

But for the real life music, i can't : to bright for me.
This friend will change the pass labs in order to have more emotional music on his wilson,