JL Gotham City?

[redm]

I'm not sure what those points have to do with placement, they are all still true if the sub is in a corner or not. What placement do you recommend for a sub in a smaller room were there might not be much room anywhere but behind the mains, and how far into the room are you thinking? The manuals I've read also say to, generally, keep your subs behind the mains (as far as forward placement) and not in-front.

[doggiehowser]

I use this guide from Thiel's placement section in the manual. Does correlate with my experience.

[redm]

Originally Posted by doggiehowser

I use this guide from Thiel's placement section in the manual. Does correlate with my experience.

Interesting, so center placement for a single sub, hard if you have an equip. Rack

[JL John]

Although the center placement may be fantastic if you get subs 1 at a time and rearrange setup upon getting the second.

Since i haven't bought a rack yet, would there be any negative effects if you placed amps etc on both sides of a centrally located sub?

[chessman]

Originally Posted by redm

I'm not sure I understand your phase comment. Since the speakers are stacked one on top of the other, how is having two over one going to effect the phase?

My phase comment was in the context of integrating subs into an existing two channel setup, not two subs interacting with each other. Said differently, the sub's waveform output needs to be in sync with the main speaker's wave form output or the sub will sound slow or muddy. Since the sub's driver is in a different cabinet than the main speaker, it is necessarily in a different location, which can exacerbate phase issues, which is why mine are at the recommended location - one each, adjacent to each main, on the inside.

As far as two subs cancelling each other out, I find two subs MUCH easier to tame room interactions than one sub. I do not count stacked subs as being "two subs" for interaction purposes because the room sees them as one when they are co-located.

I just went through this here: http://www.audioaficionado.org/subwo...s-project.html

[doggiehowser]

I think some experts do not recommend putting the racks in front as it has an effect on soundstaging.

If you have a rack that can provide good isolation from vibration, it might be OK to put the rack on the side of a centrally located subwoofer.

[redm]

Originally Posted by chessman

My phase comment was in the context of integrating subs into an existing two channel setup, not two subs interacting with each other. Said differently, the sub's waveform output needs to be in sync with the main speaker's wave form output or the sub will sound slow or muddy. Since the sub's driver is in a different cabinet than the main speaker, it is necessarily in a different location, which can exacerbate phase issues, which is why mine are at the recommended location - one each, adjacent to each main, on the inside.

As far as two subs cancelling each other out, I find two subs MUCH easier to tame room interactions than one sub. I do not count stacked subs as being "two subs" for interaction purposes because the room sees them as one when they are co-located.

I just went through this here: http://www.audioaficionado.org/subwo...s-project.html

Followup question. I did read the stereo sub project, and I've read a little (mainly manuals) about phase. For those of us without room acoustic kits etc: from what I could tell, it was all about the direction of the speaker and since my subs only have 0 degree or 180 degree it was pretty easy to tell which phase was better. My pre allows you to set phase by 5 degree increments but I couldn't really tell since the sound cuts out between shifts. Do I have phase basically right?

[redm]

Originally Posted by doggiehowser

I think some experts do not recommend putting the racks in front as it has an effect on soundstaging.

If you have a rack that can provide good isolation from vibration, it might be OK to put the rack on the side of a centrally located subwoofer.

Someone also recently said that ideally, not to have anything between the speakers including amp's etc. What is realistic is another story. Cant remember where that was though.

[JL John]

Originally Posted by doggiehowser

I think some experts do not recommend putting the racks in front as it has an effect on soundstaging.

If you have a rack that can provide good isolation from vibration, it might be OK to put the rack on the side of a centrally located subwoofer.

With that in mind at what speaker wire length do you experience audible degradation? My rack would have to go on the wall behind me

[lostinla]

My understanding: Subwoofer placement is guided by room nodes and where you can get the best measured flat bass response without stuck out. Measuring freq response is critical to determine best placement.

The advantage of the F212 is the higher driver is in a different location relative to the room node relating to ceiling height.

Dr Floyd Toole has an excellent book about this.