Accuphase digital preamplifiers (DC-300, DC-330)

[Mattia]

Hi Accuphase lovers,
I open this thread because I would like to know more about these "dead end" products that Accuphase seems to have abandoned.

I never listened to them, but I wonder how they sound and why Accuphase abandoned the digital preamplifier route after the DC-330 introduction in 1999.

Is it because the introduction of AAVA volume control that in theory eliminates the typical problems of traditional volume control, like the digital attenuation does, but at the same time doesn't add other problems (noise increase at high attenuation)?

Because by reading the marketing information (ok, they are marketing information after all ), Accuphase seemed really hyped for the capabilities of digital preamplifiers towards the end of last century.

[Barsur]

I have the Accuphase DC 300 since the year 2000 and it is till today one of my best preamps which I own. And I own a lot of preamps from a lot of High End companys. Sound is cristall clear and workmanship is exceptional good.
And most important, this preamp works since 15 years absolut flawless. This I cannot say for some of my other preamps from other "High end companys".

Best regards

Martin

[sbk]

This is indeed very interesting.
I am wondering if such a digital pre would outperform the current entry-level C-2120...

[Barsur]

Originally Posted by sbk

This is indeed very interesting.
I am wondering if such a digital pre would outperform the current entry-level C-2120...

That´s avery good idea. When we do our next blind test session, I will compare the DC 300 against my C290 and C 2420. Maybe a friend of mine will come with the C3850.

Best regards

Martin

[Mattia]

That would be very interesting indeed! Looking forward to the results!

Aside from the differences in level of construction, it would be a "Traditional volume" vs "Digital volume" vs "AAVA" vs "Balanced AAVA"

Also the DAC section could play a role.
The DC-300 is a MMB, while the DC-330 is "early MDS". I don't know how thay could compare because my only proper, long, comparison in that sense was between DP-75 (MMB 16x PCM 1702) and DG-58 (MDS 2x ESS 9018).
In the end I preferred the DG-58 for a little more precise soundstage, while still retaining a relaxed presentation.


OT

As a side note, Barsur, how does the C-290 compare to the C-2420 (that I know well)?
I have a second system that I am looking to complete in the early '90 style, like your C-290. But before buying one without listening (they are very rare and I think I'll have to buy online, if I manage to find one...) at least I would like to be sure.
(I had a C-275 that had quite obvious channel mismatch at low volume level, so I couldn't really compare and maybe also other aspects of it were off spec.)

[sbk]

Originally Posted by Barsur

That´s avery good idea. When we do our next blind test session, I will compare the DC 300 against my C290 and C 2420. Maybe a friend of mine will come with the C3850.

Best regards

Martin

Really looking forward to hear your impressions martin!

[Barsur]

Last weekend, we did do a quick "light" blind test between DC 300, C 290 and C 2420.
The rest of the equipment was Accuphase DP 510, A 70 and Magico S1. Two people listened blind (my son and a member of the Berliner Philarmonie, who have better ears than my ears and I switched the cables).
We heard with 80,0 dB SPL. But I have to admit, that the C290 was slightly louder with 80,2 dB. I couldn´t get the C 290 on exactly 80,0 dB. We made 6 blind test session, so each pre amp played twice. Music was from Jonny Cash and Richard Wagner (the Ring without words from Lorin Maazel).
What was the result? My son and the guy from the Berliner Philarmonie couldn´t detect no difference at all. All three preamps were perfect. Sound was cristal clear, absolut transparent. Bass, mids and highs were absolut the same.
They could not even detect subtle differences. Sorry for this, I kown that there will be now a lot of shitstorm, but this was the result and the truth.

Best regards

Martin

[sbk]

Interesting results, Martin - Thanks for taking the time and sharing!
I did believe that preamps should have a noticeable impact on sound quality, so I thought that a higher-end preamp like the C-290 should be noticeably better, even if its older generation.
It's interesting to hear that you couldn't detect even a subtle change between them. However, I do still believe that a preamp that is built like the C-3800 / 3850 should make a noticeable difference, but this is of course just my humble estimation..

[Mattia]

Hi Barsur,
thank you for the comparison! Very interesting. Too bad the 3850 wasn't there, it would have been even more interesting.

I must admit that I am a bit reassured: once reached a certain level of quality, also for me some gear are practically indistinguishable between each other (comparison done with speakers or with good headphones).
But then I read impressions of the "big, noticeable differences" that should be and I am a bit puzzled and a bit let down. So at least now I know I am not alone

The only "big difference" (in better) I experienced in all my last gear upgrades are the DG-58 and before that the miniDSP 22D, and also the only difference I could spot almost 100% of the cases in blind tests or even just arriving in the audio room without knowing if the DSP is turned on or off. That is why I almost always suggest a DG-58 (or miniDSP 22) to all those that are unsure if upgrade an already good power amp, preamp or source: much more bang for the buck.

Btw, I don't think there should be any shit-storm: let's keep the thread informative and constructive

[Barsur]

Originally Posted by Mattia

Hi Barsur,
thank you for the comparison! Very interesting. Too bad the 3850 wasn't there, it would have been even more interesting.

I must admit that I am a bit reassured: once reached a certain level of quality, also for me some gear are practically indistinguishable between each other (comparison done with speakers or with good headphones).
But then I read impressions of the "big, noticeable differences" that should be and I am a bit puzzled and a bit let down. So at least now I know I am not alone

The only "big difference" (in better) I experienced in all my last gear upgrades are the DG-58 and before that the miniDSP 22D, and also the only difference I could spot almost 100% of the cases in blind tests or even just arriving in the audio room without knowing if the DSP is turned on or off. That is why I almost always suggest a DG-58 (or miniDSP 22) to all those that are unsure if upgrade an already good power amp, preamp or source: much more bang for the buck.

Btw, I don't think there should be any shit-storm: let's keep the thread informative and constructive

Very good Quote from you and this confirms all the blind test which we did so far. I am always laughing , when I read from people about the "big, noticeable differences".
Get real, the biggest differences in sound comes from your room.
The seconed biggest differences you will get is from your speakers.
Than you can hear some differences from your FM Tuner.
Differences from your amps are very subtle, for example if I listened to my Linn 242 mk3 speakers you can hear in a blind test very small subtle differences. With my Harbeth speakers there is almost no difference at all. Why?! Because Linn 242 mk3 is a very difficult load to drive and the Harbeth speakers are very easy to drive.
If you have a difficult load, thean the power amp, which is more stable sounds slightly better.

One month ago I heard a demonstration of an Accuphase system, which included the DG58. This is an amazing unit. My congratulation to your purchase!

Best regards

Martin

PD: And if somebody can hear (9 out of 10) in a blind test the difference of two CD Player (for example I have the Accuphase DP 510 and the Mcintosh MCD 301), I will give him a CD Player as a present...