804 D3 vs 803 D2?

[brb]

What are you driving these with and how loud are you playing them? I have the 804d2 and depending on the amp, they sound amazing to so so. The room and setup are key, but if you are using a lower end amp, they won't perform they way you want them too.

[leo2498]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

Thanks for all the superlative opinions everyone. Again, I don't want it to sound like I'm bad mouthing the speaker. Just sharing my observances so far. I'll give them a little more time

If you want to impruve your bass out put with the 804 maybe you will add some tips like carpets and bass trap, I did and the result is very audible. The 804 has deep bass output in a small and mid size room.

Look my setup I followed some tips that forum members gave me in the past and worked for me.

I not Heard the D3 but the D2 are good image and bass, I not think I'm missing something

[playdrv4me]

Well guys. I gave the 804s a fair chance. I really did. And I will probably the only person on the planet who will have this opinion, but when I found out that the my 803s I had originally ordered did actually finally make it to my Magnolia store I reluctantly went and returned the 804 D3s I got such a screaming deal on to have what I originally wanted.

My poor 803s arrived with the tweeters broken (as I expected they would) and they're being ordered. But even with the tweeters broken and the treble cranked to make up for some of that, I can *easily* tell the difference in bass output from the D3 back to the D2. I think there comes a point when you can make significant improvements to a bass driver... For example the changes from D1 to D2 were nothing short of astounding in the bass department. The D1 was nearly unusable to me, I hated my 802 D1s but placing 802 D2s in the exact same spot was a revelation. No such impression occurred with the D3. My point being sometimes there is just no replacement for displacement I think. For whatever reason the concussive force and quantity of mid-bass that comes from these (obviously well broken in demo) D2s just throws cold water on what I experienced with the D3s.

Is the 804 D3 a technically improved speaker than the D2 in every possible way. I would say yes. The midrange is unbelievable, the bass drivers probably can reach lower than the 803 D2 ones. But I think the quantity of bass is more present in the D2s which rounds out the package a little more.

Ultimately, you need a subwoofer with either of these speakers if you enjoy real concussive force and fullness to your bass. And I can't believe I'm saying that because I used to be extremely anti-subwoofer. At least with the difference in cost between the D2 and even the very reduced price I got on my D3, I now have a budget to do that.

I probably made that as clear as mud. But sonically to my ears, I prefer the 803 D2. This is a problem, because it means the upgrade path from here is the 803 D3, and that's a HUGE investment even if I were ever to find a similar deal to the 804s. Guess I'll be waiting a while to get on the D3 bandwagon.

edit: leo2498 your setup is beautiful.

[wadeh911]

After seeing the new 803D3's for the first time this weekend, can't say their looks in person were what I was expecting. Almost tiny compared to my current 803D2's and HTM2D2 is how I would describe them. Austin Powers would call them "mini-me". The grills were not appealing or attractive. Even my wife was not impressed with their looks.

McIntosh 600w mono amps and a McIntosh front end and CD player were the source. Nice room at Magnolia in Pembroke Pines FL. The salesman had been in the audio business since the 90's and was knowledgable of the 800 Series and its evolution to the D3. Music selections were on various CD's including Eagles Hotel California, which I know well in vinyl, 2 channel, and multichannel SADC. Salesman told me the 803D3's had very few hours on them and were not broken in. I asked him how many times he had been asked to demo them since the arrived a few months back, and he said I was the 4th person.

Once he fired them up, they sounded good but we were not blown away. Could tell the midrange character was different with the new cone material, almost like it wasn't even from the same B&W family I have grown to know and prefer. The mids were accurate but missing the musical feel even with the dedicated new aluminum head. Yes the imaging was tightly integrated. Yes the bass was too tight for my taste, and lacking in punch compared to my 803 D2's. Those two bass drivers were small and the bass impact felt small. I believe they will benefit from proper break in, but I expected to be itching to buy.....and I was not.

I listen to all genres of music from classical to Rock. Before making the decision to buy my 803D2's, I listened to the 800 series from the 802's to the 805's. I listened with and without subs both single and dual. I listened with McIntosh and Classe amps, before deciding to buy Classe CA5300 for multichannel and 2 channel listening. And yes, I wanted to feel the thump of the drums in my chest and the energy of the bass guitar in my room. Neither the 802's or the 804's matched the rock performance of the 803D2's I purchased, even with the same subs.

At roughly $17K to $19K for the new 803D3 pair, I will keep my 803D2's with dual SVS SB13 Ultra subs as they are more comfortable and revealing with all genres of music to my ears. Highly recommend looking for used front pair of 803D2's if you are considering the new D3's regardless of price. My ears were really challenged to understand how the 803D3's are preferred by some to replace the 802D2's. To me in the end, it's about what listening to the music does to my brain and body. My wife and I can home after listening to the 803D3's with the money still in our pockets. YMMV but that's what makes this a great hobby.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by wadeh911

Could tell the midrange character was different with the new cone material, almost like it wasn't even from the same B&W family I have grown to know and prefer. The mids were accurate but missing the musical feel even with the dedicated new aluminum head.

The midrange change is one of the two most important improvements to my ears. I preferred the "same B&W" sound until I heard the new.

[Blackstone]

I have heard that people are not running to trade in their old speakers for the D3s as expected.

[Gravity1]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

Well guys. I gave the 804s a fair chance. I really did. And I will probably the only person on the planet who will have this opinion, but when I found out that the my 803s I had originally ordered did actually finally make it to my Magnolia store I reluctantly went and returned the 804 D3s I got such a screaming deal on to have what I originally wanted.

My poor 803s arrived with the tweeters broken (as I expected they would) and they're being ordered. But even with the tweeters broken and the treble cranked to make up for some of that, I can *easily* tell the difference in bass output from the D3 back to the D2. I think there comes a point when you can make significant improvements to a bass driver... For example the changes from D1 to D2 were nothing short of astounding in the bass department. The D1 was nearly unusable to me, I hated my 802 D1s but placing 802 D2s in the exact same spot was a revelation. No such impression occurred with the D3. My point being sometimes there is just no replacement for displacement I think. For whatever reason the concussive force and quantity of mid-bass that comes from these (obviously well broken in demo) D2s just throws cold water on what I experienced with the D3s.

Is the 804 D3 a technically improved speaker than the D2 in every possible way. I would say yes. The midrange is unbelievable, the bass drivers probably can reach lower than the 803 D2 ones. But I think the quantity of bass is more present in the D2s which rounds out the package a little more.

Ultimately, you need a subwoofer with either of these speakers if you enjoy real concussive force and fullness to your bass. And I can't believe I'm saying that because I used to be extremely anti-subwoofer. At least with the difference in cost between the D2 and even the very reduced price I got on my D3, I now have a budget to do that.

I probably made that as clear as mud. But sonically to my ears, I prefer the 803 D2. This is a problem, because it means the upgrade path from here is the 803 D3, and that's a HUGE investment even if I were ever to find a similar deal to the 804s. Guess I'll be waiting a while to get on the D3 bandwagon.

edit: leo2498 your setup is beautiful.

I found the exact same thing when I blind tested the 802 D2s against the D3s. When not knowing what I was listening to I truly couldn't tell them apart and picked the D2s in the bass category.

[playdrv4me]

Wow. I'm surprised. I thought I was going to come back to pitchforks and flames in this thread.

I can say that the change from D1 to D2 was truly revelatory. So much so that I had nearly sworn off the 800 Series *altogether* when I had my first pair of 802 D1s. But the changes from the D1 to the D2 made sense to me on paper, specifically in the bass region and the major changes executed on the bass drivers at the time. I remember how much I suffered moving my 802 D2s into the position my old D1s were in. The exact same spot, and how my face lit up when I heard them for the first time. All of the tubbiness was gone, and the balance throughout the range was incredible.

Yet the size and cost of the 802s felt like overkill to me. So i tried 804 D2s at one point. JUUUUUUST about there... Finally I decided the 803 had to be the sweet spot. And it sure is. I'm not saying ALL of these don't benefit from a sub. But the 803 D2 is truly a special speaker in the 800 Series and one that sits in alone in its unusual 3 driver config. When you think about it. Those three drivers are pushing a total surface area of 21 inches versus the 802 D2's 16, with three motor systems to boot. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the 803 was "put in its place" a bit in the D3 series for this very reason.

As for the midrange. It is everything the reviews say it is. It is "liquid"... I hate silly audiophile terms. But that's actually not a bad one. It is more open than the D2. But as I've said all along in this thread. I didn't feel the D2 needed any help in this area. Now the tonal balance is weighted toward the top middle again, whereas the 803 D2 is just such a sweet sounding unit all the way through.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Gravity1

I found the exact same thing when I blind tested the 802 D2s against the D3s. When not knowing what I was listening to I truly couldn't tell them apart and picked the D2s in the bass category.

It's *possible* that every pair we have all listened to (we being those of us in the tail end of this thread) has not been fully broken in. But I have to say that I got my 804 D*2s* fresh out of the box and the character of the speaker did not change a great deal over the time I owned them. I wasn't particularly DIS-satisfied with the 804 D2, it just needed "a little more". By contrast, I was a little let down by the 804 D3. Not even the same level of satisfaction I had with the 804 D2 was there.

The 802 D2 is a superb unit in every way. Had some of those, too. But for my semi mobile lifestyle the 803 D2 hits the perfect balance of manageability and cost.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by wadeh911

My ears were really challenged to understand how the 803D3's are preferred by some to replace the 802D2's. .

I haven't sat down and had a long listen to 803D3's, but on my brief audition I thought they were slightly thin or lean sounding, but it might have been a lack of run-in time.

OTOH, it's probable that the D3 models work better with more boundary reinforcement, so simply moving them closer to the rear wall might be all that's needed to achieve the desired balance.