Question about using Burmester RCA to XLR adapters and phase ...

[joeinid]

I do not know for sure, but does anyone know if using the Burmester RCA to XLR adapters still reverses phase. The normal XLR inputs are pin 2 negative and will be out of phase with non Burmester XLR inputs so speaker cables are usually reversed at the speaker terminals to compensate for this reversal. I don't know if RCA inputs are affected in the same way.

I am going to try the GAT first with the new 911mk3's. The GAT inverts phase and I wonder if I should just hook everything up normally hoping I hit it right.

Any thoughts are deeply appreciated.

[Rocco]

Hi Joe.

With RCA you should not have any kind of problem about the phase. But with a listening test you can verify it.

P.S.: Using Burmester components with RCA you go agaist with Burmester's concept because Burmester gears are fully balanced.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Rocco

Hi Joe.

With RCA you should not have any kind of problem about the phase. But with a listening test you can verify it.

P.S.: Using Burmester components with RCA you go agaist with Burmester's concept because Burmester gears are fully balanced.

Thanks Rocco.

I know about going against the conventional wisdom, I just want to play around.

[Rayooo]

Originally Posted by joeinid

I do not know for sure, but does anyone know if using the Burmester RCA to XLR adapters still reverses phase. The normal XLR inputs are pin 2 negative and will be out of phase with non Burmester XLR inputs so speaker cables are usually reversed at the speaker terminals to compensate for this reversal. I don't know if RCA inputs are affected in the same way.

I am going to try the GAT first with the new 911mk3's. The GAT inverts phase and I wonder if I should just hook everything up normally hoping I hit it right.

Any thoughts are deeply appreciated.

Hi Joe, do you know what they use for the actual unbalanced to balanced conversion? if those big Burmester's are balanced throughout, they might use a transformer, in which case, they would surely preserve phase through the transformer, and then assuming the amps are non-inverting, you'd still hook the speakers up backwards to compensate for the GAT. Sorry for all the guessing on my part, it'll be fun to dig into this a bit more (for me, as I'm a tech nerd at heart anyway)

[joeinid]

It's just a little adapter. I think it maintains the reversal so I am just going to hook it up as normal and the number of inversions should balance out.

[m.tonetti]

Taken from Burmester documentation.
"The 911 has two balanced inputs, which can also be operated in unbalanced mode sing the two adaptor plugs supplied as standard. Adapter plugs XLR-RCA necessary to connect unbalanced cables to the balanced input terminals. If your components should only offer unbalanced outputs, you are able to use our balanced inputs with the adapter plugs as unbalanced inputs. In these adapter plugs the Pins 2 (negative input) and Pin 1 (ground pin) are connected (see 077 manual - page 8). The pinning of XLR INPUT/OUTPUT is: PIN1=GND, PIN2=NEG, PIN3=POS.
NOTICE: Please do only use BURMESTER XLR-RCA adapter.
CAUTION: As MONO amp the 911MK3 can only be operated in balanced mode!"

[Rayooo]

Originally Posted by m.tonetti

Taken from Burmester documentation.
"The 911 has two balanced inputs, which can also be operated in unbalanced mode sing the two adaptor plugs supplied as standard. Adapter plugs XLR-RCA necessary to connect unbalanced cables to the balanced input terminals. If your components should only offer unbalanced outputs, you are able to use our balanced inputs with the adapter plugs as unbalanced inputs. In these adapter plugs the Pins 2 (negative input) and Pin 1 (ground pin) are connected (see 077 manual - page 8). The pinning of XLR INPUT/OUTPUT is: PIN1=GND, PIN2=NEG, PIN3=POS.
NOTICE: Please do only use BURMESTER XLR-RCA adapter.
CAUTION: As MONO amp the 911MK3 can only be operated in balanced mode!"

so it sounds then with an inverting preamp like GAT, using with the 911s, one would reverse the speaker connections as default setting to correct for inversion in preamp... right??

Or said another way, the 911s outputs, using the unbalanced input adapters, will remain non-inverted to input signal....???

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by Rayooo

so it sounds then with an inverting preamp like GAT, using with the 911s, one would reverse the speaker connections as default setting to correct for inversion in preamp... right??

Or said another way, the 911s outputs, using the unbalanced input adapters, will remain non-inverted to input signal....???

This is right. The Burmester adapter is expecting the RCA center pin to be hot, so the GAT into Burmester adapter into 911 will be out of phase with normal speaker connections. Another adapter, such as Cardas, would provide the correct phase with an inverting single ended source.

But absolute phase is rarely absolute

Many recordings are made out of phase, many multi-tracked recordings have some of the tracks out of phase, and recording engineers often play with phase to enhance the soundstage. Just try a few different recordings and go with what sounds best.

I think more important is the point Rocco made (he seems to know Burmester very, very well), and that is Burmester systems prefer to be run fully balanced, as they are designed on that basis. Whilst the adapters do work, I think transparency is reduced when they are used. I am in the process of changing all my sources to balanced designs.

The 911 seems designed for a low gain, low impedance balanced source to hit its sweet spot. Whilst Burmester have a switchable gain setting on their preamps (at least they do on my 088, I assume the 077 is the same), they recommend the lowest setting, which is +5dB gain, for Burmester power amps. And certainly, to me, the lower gain setting sounds better into my 911. The GAT, IIRC, has 25dB gain.

Joe is in the envious position of having two fantastic preamplifiers. I'd love to get a GAT (don't say that too quickly!!) to use with one of my Pass power amps, as the low imprdance, high gain, and sjngle ended output should be a great match. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 077 works better in Joe's system.

Just a wonderful system you are putting together, Joe

[joeinid]

Thanks Massimo!

I am playing the GAT right now. Very nice indeed.

[m.tonetti]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thanks Massimo!

I am playing the GAT right now. Very nice indeed.

In MONO mode?

CAUTION: As MONO amp the 911MK3 can only be operated in balanced mode!