Sounds more analog

[2fastdriving]

Another interesting thought...music we loved from 30 or 40 years ago, transferred to digital sound like crap usually. The vinyl versions and some remasters through crazy good outlets like mofi sound amazing. Despite the fact newer digital releases sound very good, us old timers (and our easily fooled brains) might hold onto that paradigm in which our favorite music sounds better on vinyl, period.

[Catcher10]

Originally Posted by jdandy

What emotional connection is made with digitally recorded and mastered performances that are then pressed to vinyl? Is the analog playback of a digital file reaching your brain in some different manner than the digital version? Is the vinyl pressing suddenly more analog sounding simply because of the analog playback system?

It would seem that is the case, at least that is what everyone has been saying for a very long time. I am also going to state something a lot of people say.

I have CDs and even some hi-rez files, that I also own on vinyl and I easily prefer the vinyl version. In some cases I prefer the original 70's version. But in most cases I prefer the remastered, remixed versions of today.

I honestly think the loudness wars killed off the thinking that digital was the end all media. The problem is it is still happening on CD mastering, its ok on vinyl because you want volume, louder passages to give a better music to surface noise ratio. I also think engineers today and the ones from back in the day pay much more attention to mastering for vinyl than for digital and pressed CDs. It clearly shows when you have a well mastered record vs a CD.

I think the majority of us to show off our systems will spin a record. And usually they are from the 70's.....Dark Side of the Moon, Crime of the Century, Aja, Kind of Blue. Funny how most of what people want to hear was originally recorded to 2" tape all analog.

That is what people want....but again it is so personal that I am not sure there is a right answer.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by Catcher10

That is what people want....but again it is so personal that I am not sure there is a right answer.

On that, we agree.

[cleeds]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

My favorite vinyl is all analog, but there are some, like from Beck, which are digital transfers and shouldn't sound any different ...

I've experienced similar outcomes. However, sometimes the LP comes from a different master, and/or has a wider dynamic range that the CD. I know that the opposite would seem more likely, but sometimes things just don't make sense.

[jdandy]

Okay, let me take a stab at answering my own question. "Sounds more analog" to me means what I am hearing fools me well enough to temporarily suspend the analytical part of my brain that wants to nitpick the reproduced sound. "Sounds more analog" means the musical performance from a sound system captures my complete attention in such a way the performance as a whole creates a sense of living, holographic reality, dramatically reducing the level of imagination required to experience complete immersion in the event. For me, "sounds more analog" is also about feelings that overcome my physical being, causing muscles to relax while reducing my defense of space and time that holds me back from being swept up in the moment without reservation. Live music does the same thing to me, so when I experience these sensations and emotions from my sound system I believe I can define the moment as "sounds more analog".

This is not an uncommon experience for me with my sound system, and the suspension of reality with reproduced music has not been limited to one particular recording medium. So much has to do with the quality of the original recording, the mix and mastering, and the care in pressing both vinyl and/or CD's. My turntable and phono cartridge have delivered some spectacular performances in my room. So has my digital rig. Advances on all fronts have raised the bar substantially for all of us. As audio enthusiasts, we are living in a wonderful time.

[cleeds]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Okay ... "Sounds more analog" to me means what I am hearing fools me well enough to temporarily suspend the analytical part of my brain that wants to nitpick the reproduced sound ... My turntable and phono cartridge have delivered some spectacular performances in my room. So has my digital rig. Advances on all fronts have raised the bar substantially for all of us. As audio enthusiasts, we are living in a wonderful time.

Whoa, I absolutely agree that we live in a great time for audiophiles! Although I've owned great hi-fi gear for decades, I wouldn't want to go back in time.

A question for Dan and "sounds more analog." You note that you have gotten great sound from your digital gear. Do you get the "sounds like analog" result equally with it compared to your turntable, or do you think LP still has the "sounds like analog" edge?

Or, perhaps you think digital never quite "sounds like analog?"

[aardvarkbark]

It was easier to make the distinction when digital media (CDs) were first introduced IMO. The difference between vinyl and CD of same record were striking. There was far more precise detail on the CD which offered an instantaneous 'wow! factor' and of course, the elimination of any crackling from an imperfect vinyl surface. But it was fatiguing and lacked a warmth, depth and richness that I would equate to a symphony hall acoustic, which analog had been faithfully providing. Digital seemed to put the source right there in the room, and their welcome wore off rather quickly. The detail became too clinical. As recording methods and home equipment circuitry 'improved', the difference has become less noticeable, I suppose, but I guess I should qualify that by admitting that I haven't spun vinyl for 15 years now, so may have just acclimated to digital with no true analog to compare it to.

I do still attend symphony performances regularly, so my paradigm for 'faithful reproduction' hasn't changed. Today's digital is capable of providing the same sensation as a live performance, so I can't make an 'emotional response' argument for differentiating between the two today, though I certainly could have twenty years ago.

So, I suppose that I agree with your definition of analog, with the qualifier that I believe digital is capable of achieving that effect now.

[SCAudiophile]

Love The Holy Grail artwork from Monty Python Ivan!

I prefer the phrase "Sounds more like live music.." as I no longer mourn not having a TT, etc...

And there was much rejoicing 😆!!!

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by cleeds

Whoa, I absolutely agree that we live in a great time for audiophiles! Although I've owned great hi-fi gear for decades, I wouldn't want to go back in time.

A question for Dan and "sounds more analog." You note that you have gotten great sound from your digital gear. Do you get the "sounds like analog" result equally with it compared to your turntable, or do you think LP still has the "sounds like analog" edge?

Or, perhaps you think digital never quite "sounds like analog?"

Curtis.......I have several albums on vinyl LP and digital, and a few that also include SACD and high-res 24/96 FLAC files. My copy of Stevie Ray Vaughan - Couldn't Stand The Weather on vinyl surpasses the CD and the high-res download. The LP is remarkable, and sounds like a true live performance, especially when the volume is raised to realistic levels. The CD and the high-res versions sound quite similar to each other but do not rise to the emotional draw of the LP. I also have the CD and Original Master Recording on LP of Rickie Lee Jones - Rickie Lee Jones. Again the LP is more involving.

What's noteworthy is that isn't always the case. I have Emmy Lou Harris - Old Yellow Moon on LP and high-res download. The LP sounds compressed when compared to the high-res download. The high-res version is more dynamic with a more accurately defined sound stage. Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac in high-res sounds considerable better than my LP. Again, more dynamic and better resolution of voices. I have other LP's that are on par with the digital versions but not necessarily better or more involving.

My analog rig is the J.A. Michell Gyro SE with the Never Connected PSU, a SME309 tonearm and Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge. I use the moving coil phono stage in my McIntosh C1000C/P preamplifier. My digital rig is the Esoteric K-01X and the Aurender N10. As I have made improvements in my digital gear the performance level has risen to a place where it now rivals my analog rig and many times surpasses it.

I hold firm to the notion that the real key to superior audio reproduction comes from high quality recording captured on first rate equipment, followed by experienced and talented mixing and mastering by individuals who have a complete understanding of how to preserve dynamics with minimal compression. There are some recording companies that consistently outperform their peers in the industry on both vinyl and digital recordings. I am not a person who clings to one recording medium over another. My experience has demonstrated that great recorded performances don't have to be format dependent to be involving and satisfying. I listen to LP's, CD's, SACD's, digital high-res downloads, and reel to reel tape. Lately I have even been enjoying my HiFi subscription to Tidal. Last night I streamed Vangelis - Rosetta and was astonished with the quality of the sound.

Finally, to answer your last question, I think digital can sound like analog, especially with the newest DAC's and transports available today. Digital recording and playback equipment has come a long ways in 30 years. The current leading edge digital technology from a number of prestigious manufactures is delivering remarkable sound, yes, analog sound.

[cleeds]

Originally Posted by jdandy

[B] ... I have several albums on vinyl LP and digital, and a few that also include SACD and high-res 24/96 FLAC files. My copy of Stevie Ray Vaughan - Couldn't Stand The Weather on vinyl surpasses the CD and the high-res download. The LP is remarkable, and sounds like a true live performance, especially when the volume is raised to realistic levels. The CD and the high-res versions sound quite similar to each other but do not rise to the emotional draw of the LP. I also have the CD and Original Master Recording on LP of Rickie Lee Jones - Rickie Lee Jones. Again the LP is more involving.

What's noteworthy is that isn't always the case. I have Emmy Lou Harris - Old Yellow Moon on LP and high-res download. The LP sounds compressed when compared to the high-res download. The high-res version is more dynamic with a more accurately defined sound stage. Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac in high-res sounds considerable better than my LP. Again, more dynamic and better resolution of voices. I have other LP's that are on par with the digital versions but not necessarily better or more involving.

... My experience has demonstrated that great recorded performances don't have to be format dependent to be involving and satisfying. I listen to LP's, CD's, SACD's, digital high-res downloads, and reel to reel tape. Lately I have even been enjoying my HiFi subscription to Tidal.

... I think digital can sound like analog, especially with the newest DAC's and transports available today ...

I agree completely - your experience is the same as mine. I find the entire analog vs. digital debate to be an old and tired one that has long been rendered moot. The best recordings, expertly transferred to consumer media, can be breathtaking - regardless of format.

Dan, you didn't mention FM here, but I think it's likely you agree with me that - at its best - FM can also be a high fidelity medium. While that may not be common on commercial stations, there are some non-comms that offer good sound, especially on live broadcasts, such as the old Prairie Home Companion shows.

This is why I think the "sounds like analog" phrase is meaningless. Just yesterday, I was at Soundsmith and Peter Ledermann played three tracks for me. One of them was especially extraordinary - a lacquer of a Blood Sweat & Tear remaster of Spinning Wheel. It was really impressive, but I didn't say to myself, "That sounds like analog." Instead, I thought to myself, "I'd like to hear that again!" But it was a lacquer, so I didn't ask.