Controversial Opinion

[SoundStage!]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Let's just say there are far more diplomatic ways to get your point across, regardless of personal opinions.

Hi,

I really have to take issue with this comment -- after all, is this what "audio reviewing" has come to, worrying about diplomacy? It's no wonder that many readers criticize publications for being, basically, advertorials.

Do the manufacturers get "offended" if undo praise is heaped on a product? Heck no, the more the better. But a review says something is not very good value for the money and that's now offensive? The reviewer is supposed to cushion the negatives so they don't hurt feelings? Come on, that's not right.

Who's supposed to be served, the manufacturer or the consumer?

Doug Schneider

[Jerome W]

Welcome Doug !


Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

[jwhite613]

Doug/SoundStage!... Welcome To AA!!!

[SoundStage!]

In response to all the "welcomes" -- thanks! The folks at many of the other forums aren't always so inviting. Great to see.

Doug Schneider

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by SoundStage!

Hi,

Actually, I didn't call anything out. If you look at the letter, specific brands and models were mentioned, and I addressed every one of them. I don't know the Marten or Aerial speakers, but I do know the others very, very well. Wilson was brought up by the reader.

I also don't shy away from expressing my opinions, in print or verbally. In fact, I visited the Wilson factory twice in the past and one of those occasions David Wilson asked my opinion on the Duette, which I did with the same kind of frankness as my other replies.

Doug Schneider

Doug, Bill Peugh here.

My first point was that contrary to what had been stated in this thread, the opinion you expressed had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with what you think. That's the straight shooting Doug I know all the way back to the Metaphor days.

When I say diplomatic, you named a bunch of speakers on one side of the equation and only one on the other. I realize the original question named a wide variety of specific brands but also ended in ..and so on, leaving the door open. The point might have been better received had you spread the blame as equally as you spread the praise. jmho.

Welcome to AA!

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by SoundStage!

Hi,

Actually, I didn't call anything out. If you look at the letter, specific brands and models were mentioned, and I addressed every one of them. I don't know the Marten or Aerial speakers, but I do know the others very, very well. Wilson was brought up by the reader.

I also don't shy away from expressing my opinions, in print or verbally. In fact, I visited the Wilson factory twice in the past and one of those occasions David Wilson asked my opinion on the Duette, which I did with the same kind of frankness as my other replies.

Doug Schneider

Doug...welcome to AA Thx for sharing your point of view and expanding on your commentary. I believe I am correct in saying that since Marc Mickelson's departure from your online publication, you have not reviewed any Wilson speakers. I recognize that choosing which speakers you wish to review is purely your prerogative but given Wilson's success with recent models such as the Sophia 3s, Sashas, and the Maxx 3s (all of which have had substantial changes in materials used in both cabinetry and crossover components and in terms of key drivers which have evolved the sound to have converted many to their sound), that at the very least you owe it to yourself and your readership to listen under a controlled setting (i.e., not show conditions) to one of these and formulate an opinion on their current offerings, as opposed to relying on your opinion of past models which were not to your liking? I am not a Wilson fan or basher per se but I feel from a fairness perspective, that would be the fairer thing to do. I suspect however that relations between Wilson and your publications have sufficiently eroded that you are not likely to get a demo speaker to evaluate anyway, but I just thought I would pose the question anyway.

PS: "Metaphacts" is Bill Peugh of Sumiko. I just thought you might like to know who you are conversing with (edit: Bill beat me in ID'ing himself )

[Charles]

Originally Posted by SoundStage!

Hello,

Someone directed me to this thread. Normally I answer things in our "Letters" section, but I thought it worthwhile to confirm a few things here.

It is true that I've always ran the SoundStage! Network. I founded it in 1995. I believe "tima" might be a gentleman who wrote a few reviews for us at one time. My own experience in audio, though, dates back far longer than the 17 years I've been running this. I've been an audiophile since 1981. But this 17 years running the SoundStage! Network full-time has been the most rewarding as I've gotten to experience products not everyone gets to, and I've gotten to know the audio industry inside and out.

It's also true that I have interests that extend past audio -- I have a fairly strong reputation in my country for actively promoting women's and men's fitness, which I think is an important thing, particularly as I approach 50 years of age (man, it's tough getting older).

But 99% of my time is taken up with audio, and a lot of that is with speakers, my biggest passion in this whole thing and which the SoundStage! Network has made a huge investment in terms of the measurements we do and publish. People can obviously choose to discount measurements, but I can say that there's a lot that can be learned from them, which is why our investment in them is so high.

Insofar as my opinions go, they might offend some, but I'm not here to protect certain manufacturers or some audiophiles who might not like what I say. I write about audio -- good and bad -- and it's there for the readers to take and do with as they please. Some might not like the comments, and some might try to guess what my motives are, but I can tell you they come as a result of one thing: I'm really into speakers and what I write is a result of that. In fact, I'm so into speakers that I don't review one type or one price category. I just polished up a review of some $1000 GoldenEar Aon 3s and I'm currently working on a review of some PMC Twenty.24s, which I believe to be about $7000, but I have to check on that. Early the year I reviewed Vivid's Giya G2, which I found to be the best speaker I've ever heard -- and they're $50,000 per pair.

So I hope that gives some perspective, and I'm always available by e-mail.

Thanks,
Doug Schneider

Regarding measurements, before I bought my MAAXes, I reviewed the measurements for both the Sasha and MAXX3 in Stereophile Magazine. Stereophile does extensive measurements on major speaker reviews and both of these speakers received a full set of mesurements.

Let's go through some measurements:

MAXX3 min impedance 3.4 ohms, sen 89.6 db, no resonances in either woofer bin or head units, raw frequency response plus or minus 5 db 30 Hz to 20,000 Hz. Most important is the complete absence of peaks above the 0 db line from 400 to 20,000 Hz, excellent spectral decay plot.

JA had this to say in summary: "I don't measure harmonic or intermodulation distortsion for loud speakers because it is difficult obtain consistently meaningful results without access to a large anechoic chamber. But one aspect of the MAXX3's sound that I did notice in my own auditioning was its superb linearity at low frequencies. Couple that to the expansiveness yet solidity of its soundstage and you will comprehend why I felt these Wilsons produced the best sound overall that I have experienced in Michael's room."

JA's measurements of the MAXX3 were sterling IMO, and I wouldn't have bought the MAXX3 otherwise. In addition, it is a well known fact that the harmonic and IM distortsion of Wilson speakers are much lower than competitors.

JA says: "This graph was basically the same as was supplied by Dave Wilson."

This refers to the frequency response graph of the MAXX3, meaning that DW knows all his speakers' measurements, IMO, and that the are reproducible. It is critical that speaker measurements be reproducible.

I also carefully reviewed Sasha's measurements at that time, because I was also considering buying a Sasha. Essentially, very similar to the MAXX3, which is why they sound so similar, IMO.

I agree with Mr. Schneider, that measurements are extremely important and Wilson speakers measure very well. Low harmonic and IM distortion are critical and Wilsons excel in this area. An absence of cabinet resonance is also critical and again Wilson's excel in this area. Somehow he implies that Wilsons don't measure well and this is simply not true.

I seriously doubt that Sophia3's have poor measurements, based on what I have seen from their more expensive siblings. I would expect them to be excellent.

I have a real fondness for Thiel speakers. One of the best measuring speakers of all time frequency response wise and in just about every other area also was the Thiel CS5, essentially flat from 30 to 20,000 Hz. However, the speaker was undeniably bright in the midrange and treble and did not have adequate low bass output despite the flat low frequency response which was much smoother than the MAXX3's. I went through about four woofers before giving up. Also the speaker had a wolf tone at about 400 Hz. A Bright Star Audio Block on top the speaker helped, but it was audible on test tones and I could easily feel it.

There is no doubt that the Sophia 3 is a greatly superior speaker to a Thiel CS5, and yet it will not measure as well. Virtually no speaker does. Measurements only go so far, but a speaker must measure well and I would not buy it if it didn't.

I do appreciate Mr. Schneider's comments. Anyone considering buying an expensive speaker should carefully research the speaker and this includes its meaurements.

[slowGEEZR]

I have no problem whatsoever with the way Doug stated his preference. It is his opinion, pure and simple. Myself, I prefer the Wilson Maxx 3 to the other two speakers, but again, just an opinion.

[SoundStage!]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

When I say diplomatic, you named a bunch of speakers on one side of the equation and only one on the other.

Hi Bill,

I figured that was you. Good to see you -- I didn't know much about this forum beforehand.

The only thing is the speakers I named on both sides were the ones that were mentioned in the letter, nothing more, nothing less. Could I have brought other brands into it? Yes, of course, but that would be odd.

But is Wilson the only brand that I've written something like that about? Hardly. People can look at the following links:

Xtremely Unappealing

Awful Avalon

Believe me, these caused an uproar, too. Were they my opinions? Of course. Why did I do it? Can manufacturers put out a terrible speaker and slap a high-price tag on it and only expect to find reviewers who will praise what they do?

Doug Schneider

[SoundStage!]

I just read a REALLY long post about measurements. Honestly, I can't address all that at this time. I just have too much work to do.

In any event, I really liked the post by slowGEEZR because it coincides with something I put in the letter response that caused this small uproar: "But you also mention the Wilson Sophia -- my apologies to all the Wilson owners out there, but, in my opinion, their speakers just don't cut it performance-wise."

This is all, of course, my opinion, which is based entirely on my experiences as a reviewer and publisher. If someone doesn't agree with me -- that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on these matters. If someone likes the speakers, that's fine with me.

Doug Schneider