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  #11  
Old 06-18-2014, 11:31 AM
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My take of the 4K push by television manufacturers has nothing to do with picture quality. The TV manufacturing industry has saturated the market with 720p and 1080p sets. Sales have peaked. There was a tremendous viewing advantage when moving from a typical standard definition cathode ray tube television to a 16x9 high definition wide screen television. Everyone immediately embraced the upgraded resolution and widescreen presentation.

The crux of the manufacturing issue now is, how do they get all of the present widescreen owners to continue to support their manufacturing facilities. Their idea now is to make everyone with a 1080p set believe it is obsolete, that 1080p is yesterday's news and 4k is the only way to go for a premium viewing experience. The real problem for manufacturers is most 1080p owners are completely satisfied with their present picture quality. The advance in picture quality from standard resolution to high definition was a quantum leap compared to the difference between 1080p and 4k. The visual incentive to scrap a perfectly good 1080p widescreen for a new 4k set is low.

Content is another issue. Sure, there may be some 4K content available on disc. Unfortunately the current Blu-ray players are incompatible so there is another purchase requirement in order to take advantage of the 4k resolution. Add to that the unlikely chance that broadcast television stations, having recently been forced to upgrade to new digital cameras, editing equipment, and transmitters, are not interested in scraping their 1080p equipment for 4k. The satellite broadcasters are unlikely to provide 4k content for the same reasons, not to mention the additional bandwidth required for uploading and downloading 4k content to their satellites which may or may not be able to process 4K, plus replacing all subscriber satellite receivers across the country. The possibility of 4k content from broadcasters appears non-existent.

If, by some magical mystery, the television manufacturers could suddenly have 4k sets in everyone's home by the end of this year with all content providers onboard and broadcasting, guess what? In March of next year these same manufacturers would be rolling out and demonstrating their all new 10k televisions. It is the nature of manufacturing to drive consumers to upgrade. They need the consumer demand to exist. Whether or not the general public continues to follow their lead is anyone's guess. I'll be staying with my 1080p televisions. I am satisfied with my picture quality. I have no reason to replace 1080p widescreen televisions that are serving me quite well.
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Last edited by jdandy; 06-18-2014 at 11:33 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-18-2014, 11:38 AM
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As we get older, and our vision fades shouldn't we be getting lower not higher res displays?
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
My take of the 4K push by television manufacturers has nothing to do with picture quality. The TV manufacturing industry has saturated the market with 720p and 1080p sets. Sales have peaked. There was a tremendous viewing advantage when moving from a typical standard definition cathode ray tube television to a 16x9 high definition wide screen television. Everyone immediately embraced the upgraded resolution and widescreen presentation.

The crux of the manufacturing issue now is, how do they get all of the present widescreen owners to continue to support their manufacturing facilities. Their idea now is to make everyone with a 1080p set believe it is obsolete, that 1080p is yesterday's news and 4k is the only way to go for a premium viewing experience. The real problem for manufacturers is most 1080p owners are completely satisfied with their present picture quality. The advance in picture quality from standard resolution to high definition was a quantum leap compared to the difference between 1080p and 4k. The visual incentive to scrap a perfectly good 1080p widescreen for a new 4k set is low.

Content is another issue. Sure, there may be some 4K content available on disc. Unfortunately the current Blu-ray players are incompatible so there is another purchase requirement in order to take advantage of the 4k resolution. Add to that the unlikely chance that broadcast television stations, having recently been forced to upgrade to new digital cameras, editing equipment, and transmitters, are not interested in scraping their 1080p equipment for 4k. The satellite broadcasters are unlikely to provide 4k content for the same reasons, not to mention the additional bandwidth required for uploading and downloading 4k content to their satellites which may or may not be able to process 4K, plus replacing all subscriber satellite receivers across the country. The possibility of 4k content from broadcasters appears non-existent.

If, by some magical mystery, the television manufacturers could suddenly have 4k sets in everyone's home by the end of this year with all content providers onboard and broadcasting, guess what? In March of next year these same manufacturers would be rolling out and demonstrating their all new 10k televisions. It is the nature of manufacturing to drive consumers to upgrade. They need the consumer demand to exist. Whether or not the general public continues to follow their lead is anyone's guess. I'll be staying with my 1080p televisions. I am satisfied with my picture quality. I have no reason to replace 1080p widescreen televisions that are serving me quite well.
I couldn't agree more Dan, well said! The jump from my Mitsu 55" RPTV to my current plasma and led big screens was measurable and visually enlightening. I was just admiring the picture on my 65" Panasonic VT50 watching The Lone Survivor on blu-ray via my Oppo 105D. I know 4K is technically more resolution, but I don't need it.
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  #14  
Old 06-18-2014, 01:25 PM
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I'm not rushing out to buy a new 4k (actually Ultra HD for TVs, a slightly lower resolution than true 4K), but when the time comes for me to move to a larger screen later this year I will be looking at Ultra HD. While it's probably true the improved image resolution isn't visible at normal viewing distances, the new spec also allows for other improvements like increased color bit depth from a current 8 bit to up to 12 bit. So far this potential hasn't been well exploited, but I'm hoping once the manufacturers get through hyping the resolution they'll focus on improving other aspects of picture quality that the Ultra HD spec will allow.

The irony is though, that in the audio-nervosa world in which most of us AAers live, we're constantly striving for greater resolution, lower noise floors, higher dynamic range, better isolation, etc, etc, many of the benefits of which current test methods and accepted science say we shouldn't be able to hear. And yet most of us believe we can hear differences. I've been there myself with power cords, isolation devices like stands and Rollerblocks, upgrades to digital music streaming, etc. Why should video for videophiles be different? I agree with Dan that much of Ultra HD is hype designed to bolster tv sales, but how is this different from the latest effort by any of the audio manufacturers pushing the envelope on new technology with benefits that the test data say we shouldn't be able to hear? After all, they're all just trying to boost sales to grow or keep their operations going. Are DSD 128, 24/192, or Shunyata's latest ZTron technology (which I'm enjoying as I write this) much different in scope from Ultra HD? Let the tv manufacturers keep pushing the envelope, and we can chose to be early adopters or not.
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:01 PM
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tl;dr of everything so far: 4k is a problem - at least right now. 1) there is no content. 2) even the content that is out there is problematic as 4k isn't "true" 4k as the pulldown and processing is similar to how we first got 1080(i/p) - a "hack" of sorts to fool things to 4k.

This still needs 2 years to become truly viable, just like 480p and subsequently 720p/1080i+p.

Save your money for now. Especially since 1080p TVs have just plummeted in price. I mean wow, so effing cheap. 80" 1080p Sharp screens can be had for $2700. And they look fantastic. I mean come on - talk about party HQ with one of those on a wall.
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  #16  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -E- View Post
......This still needs 2 years to become truly viable......
Yes, great point. Until they start using the other extra capabilities like increased color depth, it's probably not worth it - but of course that never stops the early adopters among us.
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  #17  
Old 06-18-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -E- View Post

Save your money for now. Especially since 1080p TVs have just plummeted in price. I mean wow, so effing cheap. 80" 1080p Sharp screens can be had for $2700. And they look fantastic. I mean come on - talk about party HQ with one of those on a wall.
Right on!
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  #18  
Old 06-18-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
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I disagree.
Hey, no doubt the image quality is there, and I' m glad your happy with TV.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankkor View Post
I disagree - we put in a 65" Samsung 4k and are still trying to get used to the sharper resolution with regular TV and DVD's. You see every detail and it is startling. The movies are alive, and the people are real. The vocals in the center channel of the HT system are more differentiated - obviously not because of better audio quality, but because you can see them talking better - you see their lips move and therefore your brain relates better to the characters. Their words are real and alive and your brain adjusts with better attention. A tremendous upgrade.
Ben, I can understand why you are saying this.

1) Your old Plasma was likely approaching (or passed) its Half-life, which would account for a perception difference in video quality.
2) You came from 720p.
3) You came from a Gen 1 720p.

Your impression is not necessarily because of 4k, but rather due to the myriad of advancements behind the scenes (not specifically resolution related).

However, the key thing is that you are happy! Goodness knows I am since now you are taking even more advantage of what Silenzio offers.
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  #20  
Old 06-18-2014, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o View Post
How about this chart on visual acuity vs distance. for a 65" 4K TV you'd have to sit closer than 4' to resolve the differences that 4K has to offer. Right, now I'll pass- it's a marketing gimmick. ref: CarltonBale.com » Does 4K Resolution Matter?
The chart does indicate that a 4k projector would be likely to show improvements in most situations. And I'd concur.

There was a noticeable improvement going from a JVC RS65 to the Sony 1000ES. The Sony was just quite astounding even compared to the JVC flagship.
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