So what happens when Shindo gear breaks?

[Tonepub]

I have to ask the tough question...

If all gear is hand built by Ken Shindo from NOS parts and NOS tubes, etc etc. what happens when it breaks? All tube gear fails sooner or later no matter who builds it.

And, if all of these fine art pieces are the result of one man who has been doing this for over 30 years, what happens when either he is no longer doing it, or the NOS parts needed to repair are no longer available? NOS tubes continue to get more and more scarce (and more expensive all the time) with a finite limit to their existence.

If so much of the Shindo magic is centered around parts and tubes that are no longer available and at best now available from only one man, what is the assurance that this level of sound quality will be maintained, say 10 years from now?

[Kevinkwan]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I have to ask the tough question...

If all gear is hand built by Ken Shindo from NOS parts and NOS tubes, etc etc. what happens when it breaks? All tube gear fails sooner or later no matter who builds it.

Of course the same is true of solid-state equipment. All semiconductors degrade over time--output devices for example. At least with tube amps, users can replace them. Try that with a solid-state amp some time.

That said, I think your question is both fair and valid.

[pitch perfect]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I have to ask the tough question...

If all gear is hand built by Ken Shindo from NOS parts and NOS tubes, etc etc. what happens when it breaks? All tube gear fails sooner or later no matter who builds it.

And, if all of these fine art pieces are the result of one man who has been doing this for over 30 years, what happens when either he is no longer doing it, or the NOS parts needed to repair are no longer available? NOS tubes continue to get more and more scarce (and more expensive all the time) with a finite limit to their existence.

If so much of the Shindo magic is centered around parts and tubes that are no longer available and at best now available from only one man, what is the assurance that this level of sound quality will be maintained, say 10 years from now?

I'm not going to say I've never had a component or tube problem in the 8 years that I have used the equipment (and now sell).

However, it has been a rare occurrence.

You will find that, with the very rare exception to some of the flagship level products, the tubes and components are obtainable with little concern. I try to maintain a stock of most every tube for every product I sell for my customers (I don't sell tubes, nor does Shindo or the Importer.) These are only used in the event that they are needed for any issues that may arise. Luckily, all the tubes chosen in the products are extremely robust, reliable, and long lasting.

Regarding component repair, any competent technician can repair a point to point wired circuit. At the current time, all components in need of repair are handled in an expeditious manner and sent to Japan if need be.

Originally Posted by tonepub

All tube gear fails sooner or later no matter who builds it.

Instead of asking about servicing something that is straightforward, the question should actually be directed at most audio components that are laden with circuit boards. These are without question much more difficult, if not impossible in some cases, to repair. This constitutes the majority of components on the market today filled with computer controlled integrated circuits, chips, etc.

The ability for music enthusiasts to be able to sit back and enjoy vintage tube gear from the 40's, 50's, 60's, etc, is proof enough that point to point wired components outlast their silicon based counterparts.

-M

[PHC1]

I have a friend who is still very bitter after purchasing a very expensive Krell transport back in the late 90's which has been a paperweight for many years now. No more laser assemblies was Krell's reply. He has a Krell KSA-200s that has been broken for a few years too but he can probably still get it fixed but doesn't even want to bother with it anymore and has moved on.

On a more positive note, I scored 2 pairs of NOS, still sealed, Siemens F2a tubes from a guy. Considering the 50,000 hr rating in them with the Cortese, I should be good. My Cortese will become part of my permanent collection by the way. I'll pass it down to my son who is into audio and music as well.

[sickophant]

Originally Posted by PHC1

I have a friend who is still very bitter after purchasing a very expensive Krell transport back in the late 90's which has been a paperweight for many years now. ...

I had a similar experience with a Krell transport, the incredibly BEAUTIFUL KPS-25s, bought late 90's. There will never again be such an industrial looking boys toy and in a sick way I miss that unit a great deal, the monochromatic blacks and greys, the way the stainless steel heat ventilation mesh on the top took on a burnt patina as if a factory producing exhaust. Its authority and analytic skill for the redbook standard was all Krell, was military and utilitarian, was all American, was neigh a signal lost.

It has that incredible lid. All manual, heavy and stunning, the LCD(?) screen that would be transparent when the lid was open and activate to grey pixels whilst playing to cut ambient light from contaminating the laser. Although you could turn that off while playing as well for the full transport effect. (In fact there was a small bug in the design and if the lid was caught shy of closing, lifted just a fraction again and then lowered just a fraction and then pulled straight up to open position the transport would still see the lid as closed and the unit would play lid open. The bug is there, it was just a matter of finding the right lift and lower.)

A large, long acrylic lid with housed electronics for the screen and safety switch that prevented the player from playing should the lid be open, it was raised by hand into a slightly tilted back almost vertical position, CD and puck loaded to the transport and then the lid was brought forward and released forward for the soft action lowering mechanism to really, really gently flatten the lid to the player. Then the action.

It was hinged with just two tiny hardened steel pins in a hinge mech. arrangement that handled the soft lower. The stresses on those pins with such a long weight swinging away around on them must be enormous.

In this case, not the transport. Stress fracturing claimed a pin one day, bit right through it at the hinge/lid interface; and the transport was dead. It had to be sent from Australia to America for a new ... pin. Several hundred hundred dollars later I had a new pin.

A bloke called Pat at Krell was extraordinarily helpful and willing and the repair was done very promptly and returned. However, God that was an expensive hardened steel pin for me. I think they charged me for it too, if I remember correctly. And, And, I asked, "did you happen to replace both pins while it was there?". "No", they felt the second pin did not need replacing.

Yeah, not what you expect for that sort of money and not a bill I wanted at that moment either, nor the ripped off feeling. Definitely not something anyone deserves. What's wrong with just letting people play your gear and listen to music!? Why not just over engineer the pins? Like a hardened steel cylindrical block instead? Something that would hold up a building. Their electronics are purely over-engineered, why not the mechs.?

But by God, what a piece of sex that machine was. The tool box, the "Swiss army knife" of audio, transport, DAC, pre. and power supply in a single chassis, it was just such an interesting and somehow counter-audiophilia concept; and they feared not and they produced it and it was a great piece of gear. Then the pin.

The event was my trigger. So I traded and I would now never again consider Krell on my menu of options. Particularly now they have lost d'Agostino due to a separating of ideological paths. I would hazard a guess:- when Krell released their first iPod dock! I suspect, if not already, Krell will be manufacturing overseas soon, I guess they are on the pure profits march. Good luck for their new direction, I suppose. They have built a business and a brand for so many years, maybe it's best to go for the cash. I have no regard for Krell anymore.

Thank God I discovered what Kondo was all about. The Krell KPS-25s and FPB-600 and a grand stash of extra cash went toward my discovery of what Kondo-heads have always said, Kondo had a magic.

Please, I am not here to start up a Kondo bashing. Albeit to say, I know what I'm hearing.

[Tonepub]

However, this did not really answer my question....

If said piece of Shindo gear is repaired by a competent technician and the same parts are not used, which is most likely, how will this affect the magic of said component?

And, just because you have a pair of NOS tubes, doesn't guarantee they will work when plugged in. Those tubes failed back in the day as well. Most tubes tend to fail at turn on, 100 hours or 1000 hours. If they don't they are usually good to go for a long time. I have a CJ PV-1 that is 35 years old that still functions flawlessly, but I've had my share of things fail over the years.

Also, the question of succession is an issue. If this is for the most part, a one man operation (or certainly an operation where one man is the brain trust) what happens when Mr. Shindo is no longer available to make repairs?

The point about the Krell transport is an excellent one. These things do happen. Naim has gone to great lengths to make sure that every one of their flagship players has an additional transport mechanism on the shelf, should it fail down the road. Rega does the same thing. Sim now builds their own transports. etc etc.

The majors like ARC, CJ and McIntosh (to name a few) have a substantial cache of replacement parts and circuit boards in the event of catastrophic failure. And I've been to their factories to verify this.

So what happens to Shindo in ten years?

[pitch perfect]

Originally Posted by tonepub

However, this did not really answer my question....

If said piece of Shindo gear is repaired by a competent technician and the same parts are not used, which is most likely, how will this affect the magic of said component?

And, just because you have a pair of NOS tubes, doesn't guarantee they will work when plugged in. Those tubes failed back in the day as well. Most tubes tend to fail at turn on, 100 hours or 1000 hours. If they don't they are usually good to go for a long time. I have a CJ PV-1 that is 35 years old that still functions flawlessly, but I've had my share of things fail over the years.

Also, the question of succession is an issue. If this is for the most part, a one man operation (or certainly an operation where one man is the brain trust) what happens when Mr. Shindo is no longer available to make repairs?

The point about the Krell transport is an excellent one. These things do happen. Naim has gone to great lengths to make sure that every one of their flagship players has an additional transport mechanism on the shelf, should it fail down the road. Rega does the same thing. Sim now builds their own transports. etc etc.

The majors like ARC, CJ and McIntosh (to name a few) have a substantial cache of replacement parts and circuit boards in the event of catastrophic failure. And I've been to their factories to verify this.

So what happens to Shindo in ten years?

10 years? Unless you know something I don't, fill me in.

Seriously though and luckily for us Ken is alive and well and able to repair any component. As is his son, Takashi, who is his
right hand man. Like the 'majors' as you mentioned, Shindo also has substantial stock of components. Rest easy.

Any high performance product, audio or otherwise, will have a knowledge pool to work from, to assist those who need it.

-Matt

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by pitchperfect

Let me be a bit more direct then-

10 years? Unless you know something I don't, fill me in.

Luckily for us Ken is alive and well and able to repair any component.

Like the 'majors' as you mentioned Shindo also has substantial stock of components. Rest easy.

-Matt

Respectfully, Matt, I have to agree with Jeff (Tonepub) on this one. If, as Serge and Alberto say, that the gear will be good for 50,000 hours, will Ken still be around to replace of those, for example, one-of-a-kind, NOS, or ultra-rare unobtainable transformers with cloth leads when the parts do fail (which they eventually will, in some cases)

Also, where will Shindo owners be if, heaven forbid, Ken Shindo fell over from a heart attack or got smacked by a bus tomorrow? Yoshiaki Sugano-san, the founder of Koetsu, didn't live forever, and until his son Fumohiko got production running again, Koetsu was unavailable.

Take for example the owners of George Wright gear...he was hand-building gear with point to point wiring and using NOS or no longer available parts exactly as Ken Shindo is. Then, tragically, he fell over dead one weekend from a heart attack. I was in the a local store one day when a customer bought $3000 worth of Wright Audio gear. A month later, Wright was dead. Now there is no more Wright gear, no more Wright product service, and no way to source replacements for the unobtainium NOS parts; what's that poor customer supposed to do now?

[Tonepub]

Ten years is an arbitrary figure, but you still aren't really answering the question, which reinforces my concern. So I'll be more direct...

How old is Ken Shindo and does he have a trained staff to carry on repairing these products in the event of something happening to him? Accidents happen every day regardless of age.

I had the same discussion with Roger Sanders of Sanders Audio. He touts a "lifetime warranty" on his products, but he's almost 70 years old and essentially a one man band. So the chances of someone that is 30 years old that will actually keep the product for a long time will probably NOT be able to get a repair done.

And while you mention that "any competent repair technician" can repair Shindo products, if they do not have access to the same components that Shindo does, the quality or at least the sound of said gear will be diminished somewhat. Even those repairing and restoring vintage Mc, Marantz and other like amplifiers have commented that replacing resistors, caps and transformers with current components changes the sound.

I'm sure most of this is a moot point, as very few audiophiles hang on to anything for a long period of time, but for those that do it is an issue.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by tonepub

I'm sure most of this is a moot point, as very few audiophiles hang on to anything for a long period of time, but for those that do it is an issue.

Technology is changing fast enough where it is very unlikely I will own a piece of gear 10 years. Heck the oldest piece in my rack is the MS-300 and I can't find a suitable replacement otherwise it would be gone.