#31
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Best Charles p.s. I honestly have never noticed visible movement from my XVX woofers no matter the bass frequency. At first I thought there was something wrong with the speaker. Even before your explanation I realized they were designed for high output with little to no excursion. I had forgotten the Legacy Valor. I have always associated sealed systems with high excursions and I have been very incorrect. Of course my XVX is ported but the thought is the same: Minimize the excursion if possible to produce the desired frequency. Last edited by Charles; 10-14-2021 at 12:34 AM. |
#32
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Mid-bass subwoofer?
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@crwilli I’d be interested on some data on the importance of location. Can you point me to some? Thanks. |
#33
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@hobie1dog thanks for your comments, thoughts and link to that article by Dan Wiggins. That article and your comments also ring true to me.
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#34
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It’s true the term subwoofer technically means a speaker that produces the frequencies below what a woofer can. Hence the name subwoofer.
So in that sense My title for this thread of “mid-bass subwoofer” is indeed an oxymoron. However, over the years it seems (to me anyway) that the term subwoofer has come to mean any bass driver that is in a cabinet by itself, regardless of the frequency range it is intended to operate at. And it is from that definition I named this thread. |
#35
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Mid-bass subwoofer?
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I think with a little energy spent, you will find many articles on setting up subwoofers. It is well understood that low frequencies (generally accepted to be 80Hz and below) are difficult to locate in the typical audio room. Above 80Hz and our brains can ‘locate’ the source of the sound. So if the goal is to integrate your subs with your mains, you do not want your brain to ‘see’ low bass coming from a point which is away from your mains. Worst case as an example; if you use a 130Hz crossover point and place your sub behind your listening position, your brain will ‘see’ the kick drum / bass guitar etc. behind you. That would totally screw up your soundstage. That is why myself and others have said using 130Hz for your crossover is too high. It has nothing to do with whether a driver of any size is capable of reproducing 130hz with low distortion. I come back to my first suggestion. Work extra hard to find the location in your room where your Venere S produce the absolute best bass they can. Then integrate your Fathom. Chances are you can use a crossover point that is significantly peer than 130Hz. As others have said, having your room measured and finding out the opportunities to improve your listening position as well as the position of your Venere S. You may be seating in a poor position for bass. I know of one expert in Room Setup who starts with finding the best listening position in a room for bass before he does anything else. Good luck Here’s ONE place for sub setup. Barry Ober worked at JL Audio. Google ‘sound doctor’.
__________________
Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2 X 2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Clearaudio Performance SE. Satisfy tonearm & Maestro Wood MM cartridge. Power: Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Sigma NR v2, Block Audio PCs, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - 4 X Alpha CGS cables, Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016 Switches, Keces P3 LPSU, Cables: Wireworld Platinum 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum 8 Speaker cables, 6M & 1M Tubulus Concentus ICs, Other:Two PSI Audio AVAA C20, Multiple GIK products, Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three 20 Amp lines, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack Last edited by crwilli; 10-15-2021 at 08:27 PM. |
#36
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unless you have a stereo room that is a completely dedicated room with nothing else in it then you're listening position is only at a very small spot. It is not going to be very far to the left or to the right. You're going to be sitting close to the centerline of the room between the two speakers and if it is in a standard living part of your house then you are very limited on where these pieces of furniture( yes speakers are nothing more than pieces of furniture that have to be positioned in the room to coincide with all of the other pieces of furniture). They are only going to go so far on either side of the fireplace, on either side of a doorway or patio doors. bathroom doors, closets, as there isn't a whole lot of flexibility to where the speakers are actually going to go because of the floor space and the other pieces of furniture like couches and tables etc., in the room. Most working-class Americans who live in regular sized homes usually do not have large dedicated listening rooms that allow you to have your speakers 6 ft away from the front wall as an example when your room is only 14 to 15 ft deep. same thing for positioning your speakers left and right in your room if your room is only 14 ft wide and you have a stereo rack in the middle or a TV then you're not going to be able to have a large amount of options for putting the speakers left to right.
For sub positioning, again somewhat determined by your limited options if it is in a living part of the house, the easiest way is to put the sub on a small movers Dolly and while you listen have somebody move the subwoofer but simply pushing it along the floor /carpet while you listen to the spots where it will fit. Last edited by hobie1dog; 10-15-2021 at 10:22 PM. |
#37
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Yes, I agree. We all have to compromise to varying degrees. That doesn’t change the goal to optimize your listening and mains position. Just do it within your space ‘budget’. Inches matter.
__________________
Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2 X 2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Clearaudio Performance SE. Satisfy tonearm & Maestro Wood MM cartridge. Power: Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Sigma NR v2, Block Audio PCs, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - 4 X Alpha CGS cables, Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016 Switches, Keces P3 LPSU, Cables: Wireworld Platinum 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum 8 Speaker cables, 6M & 1M Tubulus Concentus ICs, Other:Two PSI Audio AVAA C20, Multiple GIK products, Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three 20 Amp lines, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack |
#38
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Mid-bass subwoofer?
So… I’ve moved my speakers around (within my room’s limitations: picture window, fireplace, etc) and no space was any better for my speakers than where they were before (no other location gave any more pronounced bass).
(BTW, my Venere are the Venere 3, …NOT the Venere S. I’m sure the Venere S would put out more bass.) Similarly I played around with various locations for the JL Fathom (again within the limitations of my room) and NOT a single location allowed the Fathom to play well above 50hz. …thus not blending any better with the Venere 3 than before. Therefore, since the Tannoy PS350 sub that I used to own paired so wonderfully well with the Venere 3 I am of the opinion that I’ll need to search for a Tannoy-PS350-like sub and bail on the Fathom. …& just move the Fathom back to be paired again with my B&W 800 D2. As for my bookshelf speakers (Focal Chorus 705V) in my home office on a shelf flanking my computer monitors… they don’t have any other locations to go to. So, for their sake, I think I’m going to just buy another Tannoy PS350, since that sub paired so well with them. I shouldn’t have messed with my system & sold my Tannoy sub. [emoji17] …but, as seems common with this hobby, I just couldn’t leave well enough alone. [emoji51][emoji28] Last edited by the1010boy; 10-20-2021 at 02:25 AM. |
#39
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thanks for the update
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