Premier 350 and CT-5: It's time to get systematic

[joeinid]

Hi Briz,

My CA200 did not exhibit any of the issues that I experienced with the Pr. 350. My CA200 was awesome! The main reason I jumped on the Pr. 350 was because I enjoyed the CA200 so much. I thought the Pr. 350 was at least twice as good as the CA200. That was not my experience.

[Briz Vegaas]

Thanks for the info. Had better stick with the 200 then, not that I was planning on going anywhere in the amp department.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Briz Vegaas

Thanks for the info. Had better stick with the 200 then, not that I was planning on going anywhere in the amp department.

Just to add a little info, I am not a vinyl guy. I hope Stephen comments on this. That's a great question regarding vinyl vs digital and the high frequencies. That never occurred to me to see if there is a difference, but it makes sense to ask that question.

[rthomeint]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I'll go with the null hypothesis both components have zero hours on them, and feed many different CDs on continous all-content repeat for a measured 500 hours (about 25 days at 20 hours per day). The system will be on from approx. 11 PM through to roughly 7PM the next day when I get home from work. I will then shut it off for four hours during the evening, and listen to the LP70S and Pr17 during that time or watch some television.

How hot does the amp get running 20 hours straight? When I broke in my MET150 it blew some of the B+ B- fuses a couple of times after being on 16 + hours. After that I would run the amp for 6 -8 hours at a time then turn it off for 30-60 minutes, to let it cool down then I would restart. Maybe this is not an issue with all solid state but there was an issue with having the tube input stage. I used the low tech way to keep track of hours. A wall calendar that I write the number of hours each day.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by Briz Vegaas

Are the problem highs with digital or vinyl or both?

I'm about to go through a run in process myself with the CT5/CA200 system. I'm shifting from B&W804s to Vivid B1s. If they don't tell all about the CJ sound then nothing will. Judging by the store demo the highs will be obvious but very well integrated. The B1 lives to tell you all about the recording, good or bad.

Its not out of the question that something else is causing your issues with the high frequencies, like the room or cables, source components or power - or maybe you just need some time to adjust to the sound. I know my 804s and the B1s will be very different. I'll have to get used to not having mid range colouration for a start.

Will be interested to hear how you get on.

Briz,
Can't speak to anything except with what I'm hearing with my own system.
I will say that the issues with the highest frequencies may very well be due to what I think is insufficient burn in, just as it was with my CT-5. Also, the Premier 350 is a very transparent amplifier, and some, or all, of the issues may very well be due to differences in recording or mastering quality. Joe and I have pointed out multiple times that recordings of superior quality sound fantastic on the Premier 350.

I think it is important for folks reading this post, not to generalize and make any assumptions until I complete the burn-in process, and determine from extensive listening what the final characteristics will be. That is why we do experiments. What I can say so far is that I think using the Premier 350 requires very careful system components matching including selection of preamp, cables, and speakers. Folks tend to key in on one little thing, and perhaps think, "There's something wrong with the highest frequencies on a Premier 350; uh-oh." I'm not saying that. Dorgay used a Pr350 and ACT2 S2 as his refernce for a number of years and absolutely loved his system. What I'm saying is I hear some issues on some, but not all, recordings, and I don't know yet what the root cause is. That's what drove the decision to get systematic. I think it is also important to remember that we need to be thinking about this as a system as a whole, and not key in on just one thing. For example, in general, I'm not a fan of speakers with metal dome tweeters, such as Focal, Wilson, B&W, Paradigm, Magico, or Vivid. The notable exceptions are TAD and Avalon. I've always preferred, in general, speakers with soft dome tweeters such as Dynaudio, Sonus-Faber, and Harbeth. The high gain and transparency of the Premier 350 maybe an issue that could be exacerbated with speakers using metal dome tweeters, as well as other factors, such as the type of preamp used, and if it is a tube preamp, even the type of tubes used in the tube preamp. It's early days yet, and there are experiments still to be done. I'm merely keeping a good "lab notebook".

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Hi Briz,

My CA200 did not exhibit any of the issues that I experienced with the Pr. 350. My CA200 was awesome! The main reason I jumped on the Pr. 350 was because I enjoyed the CA200 so much. I thought the Pr. 350 was at least twice as good as the CA200. That was not my experience.

Joe,
If I recall correctly, though, at the time that you had your CA200, you did not yet own the TAD CR-1s.

Also with respect to high-end audio, remembering the law of diminishing returns. Nothing is as good as twice as good as the model below it!

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by rthomeint

How hot does the amp get running 20 hours straight? When I broke in my MET150 it blew some of the B+ B- fuses a couple of times after being on 16 + hours. After that I would run the amp for 6 -8 hours at a time then turn it off for 30-60 minutes, to let it cool down then I would restart. Maybe this is not an issue with all solid state but there was an issue with having the tube input stage. I used the low tech way to keep track of hours. A wall calendar that I write the number of hours each day.

The amp hardly gets hot at all, and in my case, is sitting out in the open, not in a rack. The very sharp cooling fins do a great job acting as a heat sink.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Just to add a little info, I am not a vinyl guy. I hope Stephen comments on this. That's a great question regarding vinyl vs digital and the high frequencies. That never occurred to me to see if there is a difference, but it makes sense to ask that question.

Joe,
It doesn't matter whether at all the source is vinyl or digital. As we have discussed, I think the biggest variable is recording and mastering quality.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Joe,
If I recall correctly, though, at the time that you had your CA200, you did not yet own the TAD CR-1s.

Also with respect to high-end audio, remembering the law of diminishing returns. Nothing is as good as twice as good as the model below it!

That's true, I did not have the CR-1's yet but I never had a hint of the treble issue with my Cornwalls or Nolas.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by turntable

Good idea Stephen. No need to suffer through the burn in if you do not have to.

Just play em 24/7 for 3 weeks and enjoy the prem 17/ lp70 in the meantime.

If you still don't dig the upper frequencies then, no big deal. Just go up the cj tube amp ladder and it only gets better

Shane,
I listened to the Premier 17/LP 70S for the entire evening last night and the system sounded absolutely gorgeous. All sorts of tube deliciousness! I listened very carefully in particular to the LP70S last night, and thought that while it does not plumb the subterranean depths of the lower frequencies that the Premier 350 does, overall it is a fantastic amplifier. I know it is not a pair of LP series mono blocks, but for what it is, a lower power stereo amplifier, the LP70S is truly a superb amplifier. If there is a better 70 Wpc stereo amp out there, I have yet to hear it. It has outstanding speed, transparency, resolution, imaging, and dynamics. It has an absolutely beautiful midrange, sweet highs, and I think you're right, superior holographic imaging to the Premier 350. I'll be honest with you. I was enjoying the the Pr17/LP70s so much last night, I thought to myself: I must be out of my mind; what am I doing evaluating all this gear? I should just sit back and listen to music on this truly wonderful system.