Are we alone in the universe? Poll

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by jdandy

It's getting heavy in here.

Point taken Dan. I’ll rein this in before it gets away too far.

[For The Love of Music]

I’m sure something else exists probably on an imaginative scale, but where?

Then comes the assumption other forms of life are smarter than humans, or is that what we choice to believe.? We fly around within our atmosphere and in space going further and further, we also possess enough armament to destroy the world if we wanted from or below the oceans surface aside from the ability to communicate and supply ourselves with the basics to live.

[radio times]

I think you mean your space probes/telescopes going further and further. We've stood on the moon. Hooray.

[Chubba]

I expect that what is being developed underground for a limited amount of humans would blow our minds.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Chubba

I expect that what is being developed underground for a limited amount of humans would blow our minds.

You are correct. The multi-million dollar bunkers for millionaires/billionaires are quite the norm. That's not to mention the government bunkers of course.

Not sure what the point of it is. I could never live in a bunker for all the years it would take for a major cataclysm or nuclear fallout to dissipate. Who wants to live in a bunker for 10 years or longer and to surface to what eventually? That's not to mention one would need to get to it in a hurry in all probability which may or may not be possible.

[Chubba]

With the amount of time I seem to spend listening to music and on these sites it may not be all that bad.I am glad that I will never find out.Cheers

[GaryProtein]

My statistical and intellectual belief is choice #4--we are not alone and we have been contacted but it isn't public knowledge.

Choice #2 and #3 are also plausible.

Choice #1 is absolutely ridiculous.

With an estimated 10^24 stars in the observable universe, even if life is present on one out of every trillion (10^12) star systems, that still leaves room for a trillion (10^12) star systems with life. It is UNFATHOMABLE that we are alone.

[GaryProtein]

Originally Posted by Masterlu

Serge... you forgot one;

We are not alone and we have been contacted, I was also abducted but got away.

During the time you were abducted by the aliens and were in their custody, did they perform examinations of all the body's orifices?

https://perihelionsf.com/1611/article_1.htm

sorry but (that's NOT a pun) I couldn't resist this one.

[IM3CPO]

Originally Posted by PHC1

I'm curious as to the pessimistic outlook to us being the only "special" and unique case of intelligent life in our vast universe from some scientists and skeptics. What exactly makes this planet or us unique that doesn't exist anywhere else in the universe?

I am not a pessimist, nor optimist, nor skeptic when it comes to us being "special". I am just going on factual evidence. Falling back on statistics to justify the theory "there must be other life in the universe" is just like math and aerodynamics prove that a bumble bee cant fly. The facts dont lie. The fact is that bumble bees *can* and *do indeed* fly.. Just like we and our planet are indeed unique..

Originally Posted by PHC1

Based on everything I've ever read, heard or watched, there is not one single component that would make us or this planet unique.

Other than the actual verifiable truth/reality telling you the exact opposite is true.

Originally Posted by PHC1

I simply do not subscribe to the theory that life started here as a fluke and that has not happened anywhere else given the same ingredients and habitable zone planets with similar conditions of which there are countless numbers as we are starting to understand more and more.

Life doesnt have to be (and isn't) a fluke. Dont fall into a non sequitur fallacy trap. Just because life exists on only one planet doesnt mean it was unintended. Its also equally non sequitur to say life existing here means is must exist everywhere else too. Ironically, this also leads into an explanation as to why it exists in only one place. The intent is to demonstrate that it is indeed *not* a fluke. We are intentional, special, and unique.

Originally Posted by PHC1

We can argue about the level of intelligence until we are blue in the face but the fact is we are only few hundred thousand years old as evolved and intelligent homo sapien species of life.

I am only 42.. Far less than the few hundred thousand years you are familiar with, but I have personally met people (call them life forms) ranging in age from a few hours to 105 years old. All have had varying degrees of intelligence. I have also met other intelligent life forms of varying age and degrees of intelligence. For example: My wife has 13 parrots. They are very intelligent. Not sure what any of this has to do with what you were talking about originally though.

Originally Posted by PHC1

Our planet is a relatively young 4.5 Billion vs the 14 Billion year old Universe. The technological progress we have achieved in only 100 years is enough to understand that an advanced civilization out there that is ten thousand to millions of years ahead of us and given similar rate of advancement would be in possession of technology that would indeed allow it to visit us if not in person then at least with their space exploration efforts as no doubt they have the same questions we do and would be exploring as we are now.

There is no way to know for sure how accurate the estimates are of the ages of the planet and universe; again, it has no relevance to your overall point. Having said this, there is no linear or exponential measure of technological advancement. Yes, there could be instances certain advancements didn't occur because of time limitations, but if that were universally true then there would never be advancement past a certain point. That is clearly not the case. Simply put, the amount of time used is at best a poor measure of what can be technologically accomplished or attained.

Originally Posted by PHC1

So here we are. Unidentified objects appearing all around us and doing things that clearly defy our understanding of physics and technology yet we argue that we are UNIQUE and ALONE in this universe.

There are lots of things that exist we dont fully understand. Heck, you dont need to look to the sky to know that. It also seem reasonable to use tools that fit the job we are trying to do. If you want to cut your lawn, use a lawn mower. If you want to cut down trees, use a saw. Using a saw to cut your grass is a poor way to cut your grass. Using a lawn mower to cut a tree is also probably not the best way to go. Dont use physics and technology as tool to justify something outside the realm of physics and technology. Use them for what they are good at. If you want to see the fallacy in going too far down this road, go read up on Schrödinger's cat. UFO's dont have to be from other planets in order for them to be unidentified and not understood.

Originally Posted by PHC1

So what is it that makes one think we are alone? I would love to hear your opinion to help me understand.

Because the evidence (and therefor the truth) says we are indeed alone in the universe.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by IM3CPO

I am not a pessimist, nor optimist, nor skeptic when it comes to us being "special". I am just going on factual evidence. Falling back on statistics to justify the theory "there must be other life in the universe" is just like math and aerodynamics prove that a bumble bee cant fly. The facts dont lie. The fact is that bumble bees *can* and *do indeed* fly.. Just like we and our planet are indeed unique..



Other than the actual verifiable truth/reality telling you the exact opposite is true.



Life doesnt have to be (and isn't) a fluke. Dont fall into a non sequitur fallacy trap. Just because life exists on only one planet doesnt mean it was unintended. Its also equally non sequitur to say life existing here means is must exist everywhere else too. Ironically, this also leads into an explanation as to why it exists in only one place. The intent is to demonstrate that it is indeed *not* a fluke. We are intentional, special, and unique.



I am only 42.. Far less than the few hundred thousand years you are familiar with, but I have personally met people (call them life forms) ranging in age from a few hours to 105 years old. All have had varying degrees of intelligence. I have also met other intelligent life forms of varying age and degrees of intelligence. For example: My wife has 13 parrots. They are very intelligent. Not sure what any of this has to do with what you were talking about originally though.



There is no way to know for sure how accurate the estimates are of the ages of the planet and universe; again, it has no relevance to your overall point. Having said this, there is no linear or exponential measure of technological advancement. Yes, there could be instances certain advancements didn't occur because of time limitations, but if that were universally true then there would never be advancement past a certain point. That is clearly not the case. Simply put, the amount of time used is at best a poor measure of what can be technologically accomplished or attained.




There are lots of things that exist we dont fully understand. Heck, you dont need to look to the sky to know that. It also seem reasonable to use tools that fit the job we are trying to do. If you want to cut your lawn, use a lawn mower. If you want to cut down trees, use a saw. Using a saw to cut your grass is a poor way to cut your grass. Using a lawn mower to cut a tree is also probably not the best way to go. Dont use physics and technology as tool to justify something outside the realm of physics and technology. Use them for what they are good at. If you want to see the fallacy in going too far down this road, go read up on Schrödinger's cat. UFO's dont have to be from other planets in order for them to be unidentified and not understood.




Because the evidence (and therefor the truth) says we are indeed alone in the universe.

Sorry, I am not really following you on most of your thoughts here. Let me address some of them.

Saying that we are unique because we have no empirical evidence of any other life out there is akin to a man standing in the middle of the desert saying I don't see anyone else, therefore I must be the only one in existence when there is a city beyond his line of sight... We've only recently even glimpsed outside our own galaxy... It wasn't long ago we thought the Milky Way was the ONLY galaxy... Let's not jump to conclusions or get ahead of ourselves here? Just because we have not yet officially discovered other life also does not mean there is NO other life. It's all speculative at best. Odds are definitely in favor of other intelligent life out there.

Unless of course you are implying that we are special or unique based on alternate theories of "creation" or "simulated reality"? Let's stick to the basics here without evoking those alternative theories.

I would have to agree that we are "intentional" and some scientists have alluded to as much, saying that the chances of life happening by random chance is akin to a tornado going through a junkyard full of airplane parts and at the end there is a brand new Boeing 747 standing fully assembled...

This however always has to be resolved further and to resolve it further means asking the ultimate question of who created us? Depending on which way you look at it... If it was aliens, surely they were created by someone else, if we are living in a simulated reality, then who is the programmer, who created that programmer, etc until you ultimately get to the "supreme being". That however has religious overtones and perhaps that is the reality, we simply can not or at least do not yet have empirical evidence of that either.


As to your comments about parrots and various ages. We are living in a technological age, I think it is rather clear that at this point we have evolved and perhaps even have stopped evolving as far as our brains go but the level of technology we have achieved allows us to continue on with progress and new inventions with the help and aid of such things as computers, powerful software, running simulations that would have taken thousands to millions time slower to calculate by using our "intelligence" without machines. How about Artificial intelligence which clearly eventually be superior to us in every imaginable way? It will pave the way to further technological progress at an even more accelerated pace. Engineers are already blown away when using AI to help them design things and this is only the beginning... Intelligence, education and applied skills are not all the same thing. A rocket scientist would not make a good surgeon, a surgeon would not make a good rocket scientists and neither could do a good enough of a welding job...

Like Einstein said, “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”


Linear or exponential measurement of technological progress? Let's see here... Depends on how you look at it. Going from basic stone age tools to the bronze age to the iron age to the rocket age??? Surely you have noticed that our progress has been a snail pace until approximately 150 years ago... We went from taking a bath once a month and using whale oil for light to exploring Mars....


It would be logical to assume no matter the capacity of the brain of any intelligent life, at some point their technology also allows further progress at an accelerated pace and machines or other technology that far exceed the capability of any developed brain. Time actually IS essential here because as I have already mentioned, as soon as we hit the technological age of conductors, electricity, solid state devices, silicone chips, our progress skyrocketed. We are now looking into the quantum computing era! Imagine where we will be in another 1000 years. How about 10,000 or a Million years?? Surely any civilization that has achieved machines that expand on the capability of the brain such as our technology does today, the limit will only be that of the laws of physics and even those can probably be bent?

Let's not even go into other differences that might exist between us and extraterrestrial life and their unique abilities that could and probably would differ from ours. If life is so abundant and diverse on our planet, it would be logical to assume one would encounter a diversity on other inhabitable planets where abiogenesis occurred. If they look like reptiles instead of humanoid figures like we are accustomed to, why should that be surprising, that would be their evolution of species with the highest intelligence levels. If they don't walk and fly or swim instead? Who are we to judge if we evolved from chimps? Is that something to be proud of? What if alien life developed from a life form with 8 appendages and 100 fingers and also a tail to lean on for superior balance?

Sure, having opposing thumbs is very helpful in the tool age and perhaps it is a necessary component on the way to becoming technologically advanced as the species evolves technologically but still, why should that be a surprise? What if they use their tails or tentacles to achieve the same thing?


It is a known fact that the earlier homo sapiens actually had bigger cranial volume. Were they as intelligent as us? Probably so but they did not have "education". Once again, a cave man would not make a great banker but a banker would not make a great hunter and would starve to death...

Time is of essence in technological progress once the equivalent of "computing" age is reached. Would we want to bet that our computers today would be the equal of computers 100 years from now? Ridiculous. How about airplanes? No? Cars?What then? Nothing... everything will be superior. A civilization hundreds of thousands or millions of years ahead, given similar computing age achievements would be light years ahead of us across the board.

The recent pilot testimony of witnessing a cube encased in a sphere flew that flew between their jet fighters? These objects were there daily for a period of time and present all day long just toying with the pilots? That's earthly technology? Of what country I wonder... Ours? Secret skunk works? Top secret technology? What are they doing taunting pilots to attract the inevitable attention? Lockheed or Boeing engineers just bored and playing around with F-18 Pilots? Me thinks NOT...