804 D3 impressions vs D2

[playdrv4me]

Hey guys,

I am sorry if I'm a bit late on this. I'm sure all the reviews have rolled in from everyone already. But I thought this would be relevant material for anyone who is grinding their knuckles in anguish over whether or not they should jump to the 804 D3 either from their *current* D2s or in case they are faced with a scenario of Demo/NOS/Used D2 versus D3.

I will keep this quick and dirty as I've only spent probably a good 20 minutes to a half hour with the D3s now, but that same amount of time was all it took to sell me on how *GOOD* the 804s are as compared to the rest of the 800 Series line as well. I also don't profess to have "golden ears", but I've spent enough time with enough different speakers to know why and what it is I love about what makes the 800 Series my favorites.

In short. The D3s are a fantastic speaker in terms of construction, beauty, and rigidity of the cabinet structures. But realistically speaking, at least in terms of 804 to 804, which are the most similar overall shape and arrangement after the 805, I for the first time did not feel the same "gotta have it" or "wow" sensation in my ear holes that I did with pretty much every other 800 Series iteration compared to even the 804 D2... Be that even 802 or 803s in previous generations.

What I was most interested in was the bass extension of the new Aerofoil woofers. Because well, that is where the 804s are often picked apart against their larger brothers. I found it interesting that at least two places I went to, maybe 3 were using the Boz Scaggs track "Thanks to You" in an attempt to showcase the massive bass potential of the D3. Now, let it be said, that this track sounds truly amazing on the D3s. But that wasn't sufficient for me. I was fortunate that in at least one of those cases the sales person was playing it right off his phone as an iTunes download through the DAC in a high end, high power Denon receiver model. This was even better for me because I also run my 804s off an absolute brick house of a Pioneer receiver made in Japan in 2001, the VSX-49TX. I run my AppleTV via Toslink to its very high quality DAC. One of the few receivers truly capable of driving all of its channels at the spec'd 160 watts which is far more than plenty for 804s, though I only use it for stereo 2 channel as its decoder is outdated for movie use. Their room size is also a not far off approximation from my listening area.

So... I came home, downloaded this same track and played it. Just as I suspected, it wasn't some thunderous bass handling capability or even much discernible extra bass I was hearing in the 804s. It was just a superbly deliciously recorded track with lots of low end RIGHT where the 804s can use it most.

As for the midrange and high end with that song and the rest of the material I heard? I perhaps heard a tad more "space", "presence" and crispness to voices. But it might also be that I'm being nice because I don't want to seem over negative. I need to test ONE MORE track that I forgot to ask them to play off MY iPhone that I felt was a little bass weak on the D2, as that would have been a real fun test. But that potential qualification aside, I'm just being honest when I say that to my ears, the 804 D3 in particular just isn't the quantum leap that was instantly recognizable in the N803 or even the 80*2* D1 to the 804 D2. And mind you that before I'm crucified for every test parameter not being some perfect A/B comparison in a controlled anechoic chamber 50 feet underground, I didn't need such a controlled environment to hear what made me a believer in the D2 versus everything that came before it. I'm not really sure WHAT I was expecting as the D2 is already perhaps one of my favorite sounding speakers on the planet. Even as a previous owner of 802 D1s AND D2s. Perhaps the 800 Series has really just evolved to a point where its that good overall, and certainly for someone wanting to stay current with the newest possible 800 Series refinements, the D3 in any model will not disappoint.

Now for a comparison between the beloved D2 and some Sony SS-NA2ES I "found" today while poking around Christmas sales

[diononiz]

Honestly on first listen, my wife "voice of reason and not an audiophile by any means" and I both thought the sound was a bit flat.

But as we listened longer, we started to notice the music just flowed and enveloped us. Gone was any harshness and aggressive bite. The instruments had natural warmth to them, much as you hear in live music. The voices started to have more depth, presence and clarity. Our listening sessions lasted longer and we found ourselves wanting to come back and listen more often.

My room is by no means ideal. In fact, it is pretty bad acoustically with large windows and two sliding glass doors to the right side. The left side opens up to kitchen. In addition, I have hardwood floors but do have an area rug underneath the couch that is our main listening position. I did have all the sheet rock replaced with quiet rock during our recent remodel but I am not sure it makes much impact.

I had a chance to do some back to back before my new speakers were delivered which was where I heard the largest difference. Same equipment, my listening space and environmental factors.

I remember when I was originally auditioning the 804D2 in various showrooms around the bay area, they sounded different every place I went. (Different equipment, cables, environments etc.) I actually gave up listening at the audio shops and wound up just purchasing a pair.

I would encourage you to listen longer and if possible in your own home. Above all else, have fun with this process and let your ears be the ultimate judge.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by diononiz

Honestly on first listen, my wife "voice of reason and not an audiophile by any means" and I both thought the sound was a bit flat.

But as we listened longer, we started to notice the music just flowed and enveloped us. Gone was any harshness and aggressive bite. The instruments had natural warmth to them, much as you hear in live music. The voices started to have more depth, presence and clarity. Our listening sessions lasted longer and we found ourselves wanting to come back and listen more often.

My room is by no means ideal. In fact, it is pretty bad acoustically with large windows and two sliding glass doors to the right side. The left side opens up to kitchen. In addition, I have hardwood floors but do have an area rug underneath the couch that is our main listening position. I did have all the sheet rock replaced with quiet rock during our recent remodel but I am not sure it makes much impact.

I had a chance to do some back to back before my new speakers were delivered which was where I heard the largest difference. Same equipment, my listening space and environmental factors.

I remember when I was originally auditioning the 804D2 in various showrooms around the bay area, they sounded different every place I went. (Different equipment, cables, environments etc.) I actually gave up listening at the audio shops and wound up just purchasing a pair.

I would encourage you to listen longer and if possible in your own home. Above all else, have fun with this process and let your ears be the ultimate judge.

Yeah I saw your unboxing and subsequent review, and I found it a good assessment and DO actually believe you heard the differences you did with proper time to listen for a while. I think my bigger point was just that very recently I had been going through a stage where I kept trying different older Bowers speakers, some Bang and Olufsen BeoLab 5s and some other different things, and so it was not until just the last couple of months when I realized the D2 series would be clearing out that I even BOTHERED to give the little 804 D2s a listen. And I was simply blown away and felt really stupid for having dismissed them for so long. As an aside, I found Kal's old 2013 review of the 804 was kind of similar in that he had them as his rears for so long he'd never even tried them as his main channels.

Even when compared to the Nautilus 803 (the genesis series of all these speakers right after the old matrix series in the late 1990s) and EVEN the 802 D1, the difference the 804 provided was immediate and very evident. In contrast, I didn't have that same "wow" experience listening to the D3 in that exact same listening room at Magnolia for the first time. Not only that, we previously had 802 D2s too connected to MC601 monos and I felt that all the key elements that make the 802 a good speaker, yet without the weight, cost and more selective possible amplification needs, were present in the 804 D2... just a little lighter in the lower octaves.

So in other words, I don't believe our experiences contradict each other, as you have had much more time to listen than I have. But if I was comparing a 4 or 5k used, NOS or demo pair of 804 D2, with a 9k pair of 804 D3, I wouldn't feel at all bad about my decision to save almost half on the D2 in case someone out there is in that position.

There are many more fundamental changes to every speaker up from the 804 in the D3 series so this is by no means an indication that the same will apply to the 803, 802 and 800 D2 vs D3, either. The changes might be more immediately evident on those. Conversely, the 805 results might be similar to what I heard with the 804. Perhaps the greatest takeaway here should continue to be that the 804 in general, is a speaker to be reckoned with, that blows away LOTS of things out there costing significantly more.

[Front242]

Anyone seriously considering spending $9,000 on a new pair of nearly full range speakers should look at the Salk Soundscape 8. Factory direct, no sales tax, take a look!

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Front242

Anyone seriously considering spending $9,000 on a new pair of nearly full range speakers should look at the Salk Soundscape 8. Factory direct, no sales tax, take a look!

I heard them at a guy's house I sold an amplifier to. I don't remember anymore the specifics but I honestly wasn't that impressed for as much as the owner was raving about them like they were the end all be all of speaker design. Personal preference I guess. *shrug*

[bigblue]

The value on the second hand market is also in the factor in this game. Even though we always say "this is my last upgrade", there will be a day...

[Just1more]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

Yeah I saw your unboxing and subsequent review, and I found it a good assessment and DO actually believe you heard the differences you did with proper time to listen for a while. I think my bigger point was just that very recently I had been going through a stage where I kept trying different older Bowers speakers, some Bang and Olufsen BeoLab 5s and some other different things, and so it was not until just the last couple of months when I realized the D2 series would be clearing out that I even BOTHERED to give the little 804 D2s a listen. And I was simply blown away and felt really stupid for having dismissed them for so long. As an aside, I found Kal's old 2013 review of the 804 was kind of similar in that he had them as his rears for so long he'd never even tried them as his main channels.

Even when compared to the Nautilus 803 (the genesis series of all these speakers right after the old matrix series in the late 1990s) and EVEN the 802 D1, the difference the 804 provided was immediate and very evident. In contrast, I didn't have that same "wow" experience listening to the D3 in that exact same listening room at Magnolia for the first time. Not only that, we previously had 802 D2s too connected to MC601 monos and I felt that all the key elements that make the 802 a good speaker, yet without the weight, cost and more selective possible amplification needs, were present in the 804 D2... just a little lighter in the lower octaves.

So in other words, I don't believe our experiences contradict each other, as you have had much more time to listen than I have. But if I was comparing a 4 or 5k used, NOS or demo pair of 804 D2, with a 9k pair of 804 D3, I wouldn't feel at all bad about my decision to save almost half on the D2 in case someone out there is in that position.

There are many more fundamental changes to every speaker up from the 804 in the D3 series so this is by no means an indication that the same will apply to the 803, 802 and 800 D2 vs D3, either. The changes might be more immediately evident on those. Conversely, the 805 results might be similar to what I heard with the 804. Perhaps the greatest takeaway here should continue to be that the 804 in general, is a speaker to be reckoned with, that blows away LOTS of things out there costing significantly more.

Sorry to revive a dead thread but it seems as if there are a couple folks "in the know" as to the 804 D2...

I live in Switzerland...so variety is a bit limited... but I came upon a pair of 804 D2s for about $6'500...not cheap by any means but from what I've seen a pretty decent "entry level" speaker for the price. The 804 D3s are significantly higher priced at $9'000...I am building a new system from the ground up...I live in an apartment...the living room is about 3.5 X 3.5 meters (empty)...so not much space. I'd like to use the 804 D2s as my main front speakers for Hifi purposes & have them double as the fronts for home theater... So...any further thoughts on tbe 804s from a year ago? Appropriate enough for my intended use? I saw some PMC Twenty 26s for $8'500...they seem to get good reviews as well...but now we're up around the 804 D3 price. I'm new to the game so I'm not sure I'd pick out all the differences in a $5'000-$7'000-$9'000 paircof speakers...but I would like somethong that is a bit higher end, has great sound, & will last awile....thanks in advance.

[Masterlu]

Just1more... Welcome to AA!

[joey_v]

Originally Posted by Just1more

Sorry to revive a dead thread but it seems as if there are a couple folks "in the know" as to the 804 D2...

I live in Switzerland...so variety is a bit limited... but I came upon a pair of 804 D2s for about $6'500...not cheap by any means but from what I've seen a pretty decent "entry level" speaker for the price. The 804 D3s are significantly higher priced at $9'000...I am building a new system from the ground up...I live in an apartment...the living room is about 3.5 X 3.5 meters (empty)...so not much space. I'd like to use the 804 D2s as my main front speakers for Hifi purposes & have them double as the fronts for home theater... So...any further thoughts on tbe 804s from a year ago? Appropriate enough for my intended use? I saw some PMC Twenty 26s for $8'500...they seem to get good reviews as well...but now we're up around the 804 D3 price. I'm new to the game so I'm not sure I'd pick out all the differences in a $5'000-$7'000-$9'000 paircof speakers...but I would like somethong that is a bit higher end, has great sound, & will last awile....thanks in advance.

I would skip the used 804d2 and get a new pair of the 804d3. The biggest difference is the midrange. Put your ear next to the continuum fst midrange and then the yellow Kevlar fst... You will get what I mean.

[aardvarkbark]

Just1more...it sounds like the 804D3 is beyond your budget? If so, I wonder if you should audition the 805D3 since they're about the same price as the 804D2s you mention. If you're using either for fronts for HT, they'll probably both leave you wanting for a sub, though.

I had the Nautilus 804s and found them woefully lacking in bass.